Arval UK - Paid PCN and now want me to pay them

jojojosie

Hi

If anyone can let me know where I stand legally here as they intend to take by direct debit £100

I will post my email to them and there reply today.

need urgent advice as I may need to cancel my direct debit


Good morning

Yesterday I received invoice numberxxxxxx

I am confused as to why you have incorrectly issued me thisinvoice as it relates to parking charge notice and not a penalty charge notice.

A Notice To Keeper gives the keeper the option ofpaying the charge or providing the name & address of the driver to thecompany who issued it.

The protection of freedom act 2012 amendment allows you topass on the drivers details to the company who has sent the notice. The BVRLAactually instructs its members to do this as good practise.

I am more than happy to allow you to pass them my details sothat they have a tangible name and address to pursue. This also absolvesyourselves as the registered keeper from any liabilities.

Please do not reply referring me to your T&Cs as this is neither a fine or penalty and as such is not covered by your T&Cs.Fines can only be issued by the police and local councils and are of course enforceable under UK law.

Fines cannot be issued by private companies what they cansend is an invoice as this is a civil dispute on private land.

I hereby notify you that I do not authorise you to take £100by direct debit in relation to the quoted invoice number.

Could you please confirm back ASAP that you have made an administrative error and that the invoice is being cancelled.

Received this back today


The penalty charge notice forregistration XXXXXX was issued to yourself on the 12th January2014. As no payment was made this charge was passed to Smart Parking Limited.As your vehicle is registered C/O Arval we then receive the penalty charge.


Onreceipt of any parking fines, bus lane contraventions, congestions fines aswell as intended prosecutions and unpaid tolls Arval will check that thecompany is registered with the British Parking Association. As long as this isthe case then on receipt Arval's policy is to pay all fines/charges in order toreduce risk. Delays or failure to pay and deal with these could lease to increasedcosts to the customer.



A PCN is a Penalty Charge Notice, this is covered within section titled ‘Liability and Indemnity’ of your contract. This refers to payment of fines or penalties for parking, driving or similar offences incurred by Arval relating in any respect to Vehicles hired. Due to this the charge against invoice XXX is due and payable and has not been charged in error.



Goingforward we can arrange for future fines to be passed to yourself topay rather than Arval. If you would like future Parking Fines to be passedto you to pay, please can you read the below information and confirm by returnthat you would like us to set this up on your account going forward.

Transfer of Liability

All fines are posted from the issuing authoritiesto Arval as we are the registered keeper of the vehicle, our standard processis to pay all fines upon receipt.

If you wish to pay parking fines to the authoritydirectly we can set up 'Transfer of Liability', this means we will not pay thefine, but send a copy of your contract to the issuing authority to contact youdirectly. The administration fee to send your contract is £25.00 + VAT for eachfine.

ColliesCarer

JoJo - edit your post asap and take out all references that could identify you i.e. the two references to invoice number and reference to the car reg.

Reading between the lines I'm assuming
You have a lease car from Arval

The parking company have applied to the DVLA for the keeper details
the car's registered keeper is Arval
Arval then received a charge notice which they have paid and they are now seeking payment from you
Is this the position?

ColliesCarer

Read the NEWBIES sticky thread - at the top of this forum
at the bottom of post #1 you will find the following heading

* COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK

jojojosie

Edited thanks

Yes that is exactly the case.

when they sent me an invoice also the didn't provide any copy of pcn.

The lady who replied insists on calling it a penalty charge notice.

I am very unsure what to do. A lost a case once in the smalls claims court where the evidence supported me but the judge decided that the company with a lawyer must be right.

Do I just have to take this on the chin however bad it tastes

ColliesCarer

I don't think so - but people more knowledgeable than me will respond shortly.
I think the position may well be that the lease company had no business paying this Parking Charge - it was just a speculative invoice from a private parking company and they could have discharged any liability to themselves by providing your details to the parking company and passing the PCN to you - but check the terms and conditions of your lease.

Also if I were you I would contact your bank asap and instruct them that no dd from Arval is to paid.
That will ensure they can't take the payment and give you time to get this sorted out

Stroma

Have you checked their T&Cs for this? If they don't mention private parking charges then they are in breach of their own terms. I would go back to them and dispute that you owe this money. Inform them that any money taken out of your account in relation to this will be immediately reversed as unauthorised payment.

Tell them that they should be abiding by their trade body's recommendations on this, and that is to pass on the drivers details, they don't say to pay invoices as it transfers liability. Also that they should liaise with their legal department on this.

Any money taken without authority if they have card details will be reversed, and you are considering legal action against them.

This situation has been covered before on here, please search on hired cars to see how others have dealt with this

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

jojojosie wrote: »

Edited thanks

Yes that is exactly the case.

when they sent me an invoice also the didn't provide any copy of pcn.

The lady who replied insists on calling it a penalty charge notice.

I am very unsure what to do. A lost a case once in the smalls claims court where the evidence supported me but the judge decided that the company with a lawyer must be right.

Do I just have to take this on the chin however bad it tastes

The situation is common and it is why if there is a windscreen notice we suggest writing quickly.

The lease company are acting unreasonably. We contend that these are not valid invoices and by charging you for processing them they are giving you unnecessary expense. It does not cost them £35 to forward the notice so I would refuse that charge as it is unfair. I would point out that they could have a partner company that invents fake invoices and they could make a nice profit.

There are wiser heads than mine, but you are right that they should not have paid as all they had to do was wrote back to the parking company naming you to remove their liability. They have a duty to minimise their losses and by paying they have increased them and denied your ability to appeal the unfair charge.

So pay hard ball, don't pay them, don't agree to the £35 charge, use the right to claim your costs from them, but wait for some of the more experienced hands to reply to refine the best approach.

As a leasing company they are under the control of the financial watchdogs and a complaint in their direction would also be appropriate, both for the unfair terms and the taking of money via the DD where it is not agreed. Under the DD scheme if they do take the money, yiu can contact your bank, tell them that you have dispute the payment and want the payment reversed until such time that this is resolved and they will do it.

jojojosie

I have emailed them asking them for a copy of the relevant section of the lease agreement

bod1467

Please note that OP does not mention there being a windscreen ticket, there fore no opportunity to challenge this and head off any RK notification. Indeed Smart Parking regularly use ANPR cameras, so the first notification would be via post to the registered keeper.

As said above - you (OP) are right and Arval are wrong. In fact Arval are very aware of this as I have made this very point before (to my company's Fleet manager, the fleet management company, Arval and ALD leasing companies) last September. They gave me the same (incorrect and unenforceable) response.

ColliesCarer

In their response to you they state

jojojosie wrote: »

A PCN is a Penalty Charge Notice, this is covered within section titled ‘Liability and Indemnity’ of your contract. This refers to payment of fines or penalties for parking, driving or similar offences incurred by Arval relating in any respect to Vehicles hired. Due to this the charge against invoice XXX is due and payable and has not been charged in error.

It looks like they are trying to pass this Parking Charge off as a penalty because it's only penalties and fines that are covered in their lease.

In your response to them refute that this charge is a penalty and demand to see the PCN to which their invoice relates.

jojojosie

bod1467 wrote: »

Please note that OP does not mention there being a windscreen ticket, there fore no opportunity to challenge this and head off any RK notification. Indeed Smart Parking regularly use ANPR cameras, so the first notification would be via post to the registered keeper.

As said above - you (OP) are right and Arval are wrong. In fact Arval are very aware of this as I have made this very point before (to my company's Fleet manager, the fleet management company, Arval and ALD leasing companies) last September. They gave me the same (incorrect and unenforceable) response.

Please indicate how you resolved this if you don't mind