Where does law stand on use of 10l+ jerry cans?

Mojisola

specialboy wrote: »

The Regulations put a limit of no more than 2 x 5 litres plastic containers, which have to be of an approved design, and no more than 2 x 10 litres metal containers, which should be marked with the words "PETROLEUM SPIRIT HIGHLY FLAMMABLE";

It doesn't say either/or so I read it as 2x10 litres and 2x5 litres so 30 litres in total.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/175505/guidance-note-23.pdf

Also here -
https://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petroleum-faqs.htm
The limit is a maximum of two suitable metal containers each of a maximum capacity of ten litres and two plastic containers (which have to be of an approved design) each of a maximum capacity of five litres.

TrickyWicky

Hi all

Hope you don't mind me chiming in but this is clearly a controversial issue. I've heard of people carrying petrol and their cars go up in smoke. Oddly however they carry it in their petrol tank and it doesn't happen.

Last summer a friend of a friend accidentally filled his car with the wrong juice. Out came the fuel man who had all the specialist gear, sucked it out the tank, sucked out all the lines, fushed them through etc..

He jumps back in his wagon (which had like a 400L capacity tank in the back right behind his seat) and what does he do?
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Still guessing?
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He lights up a CIGARETTE! Oh and yes there was a "No smoking" sign above his head. Did his wagon go up in flames? Nope!

I guess what I'm saying is that carrying large amounts of petrol in the boot of your car can be dangerous but if you know what you're doing, take precautions, do your research you may be ok.

Personally I feel like I'm living on the edge carrying a 5L petrol can and I can't wait to get it out the car again ASAP..

Nilrem

I suspect part of the reason for the law and rules on garage forecourts are because, Petrol tanks in cars (including the wagon in your example) will usually be fixed pretty securely (and for a 400l tank probably pass all sorts of certifications and checks) - people can't be trusted to secure their most valuable cargo (the kids, dog etc), and never seem to secure other items properly so what hope is there that the average punter will make sure a large petrol can is secured properly? (very little I fear).

Same with making sure that their cans are still ok to use (or are actually certified for use with larger ones*), small cans tend to have a limit to how much they can leak, and are readily identifiable to the forecourt staff as being proper cans as there tends to only be a handful of common designs/styles these days.
I've seen people I know (and thought were sensible) about to fill up petrol cans with things like badly fitting caps, or obvious damage (but not yet leaking).

Unfortunately for the parts of the population that are sensible, know the risks and take proper precautions the idiots tend to result in the law having to take them into account in order to try and limit the danger to the sensible (few it would seem at times).

The guy in your example should probably have been sacked (and would likely have been sacked if he did it in front of his boss), as he might have been fine that time, but every time? (not to mention the law now bans smoking in work vehicles).


*Anyone remember the idiots during the petrol strike a few years ago who were using virtually any large jerrycan type thing (regardless of what it was made from) to try and store petrol.

Lum

TrickyWicky wrote: »

He lights up a CIGARETTE! Oh and yes there was a "No smoking" sign above his head. Did his wagon go up in flames? Nope!

My dad and my granddad both fix(ed) petrol pumps for a living, would both drive around with fuel in the van, petrol soaked parts in the van, both owned vans that ended up stinking of petrol inside.

Both of them smoke(ed) heavily, as well as everyone in the industry who they knew.

None of their vans ever exploded.

Pretty sure Mythbusters tested the thing about igniting petrol with a cigarette (and a mobile phone for that matter) and couldn't get it to ignite, though admittedly their methods aren't always exactly scientific.

Strider590

TrickyWicky wrote: »

Personally I feel like I'm living on the edge carrying a 5L petrol can and I can't wait to get it out the car again ASAP..

Well, here's the thing......

Petrol is not flammable.

Only the vapours are flammable.

Basically without oxygen, it'd never burn so provided you don't have a leaky petrol can, the risks of carrying one in your car is literally zero. Which is why I purchased a metal jerry can, there's no chance of it becoming puctured and the way these things seal, there is no way it's going to leak.

With any residual fuel around the top, even if it caught fire, it would stay intact and the fuel inside would not burn, but in a plastic can, the plastic would melt and the whole lot would go up.

I still won't carry one in my car unless I have to, but it's all about knowing the risks.

Lum wrote: »

Pretty sure Mythbusters tested the thing about igniting petrol with a cigarette (and a mobile phone for that matter) and couldn't get it to ignite, though admittedly their methods aren't always exactly scientific.

Yeah basically you need a naked flame, so you could smoke in a petrol soaked car as long as you used only the lighter socket.

The autoignition temperature of petrol is 240-280c, so without a flame or a spark, it wouldn't light.

The problem of course then comes down to what electrical things in the car might produce a spark, like switches and dodgy connections (French cars would be a death trap).

Mr_Mink

Just to chime in on the forecourt side of things. Many that impose limits on jerry cans (either number of or size) because of fuel theft. I've worked at a petrol station and they were always very hot on us making sure that no more than 2 jerry cans were used and no larger than 10 litres.

And on a slightly more comedic/worrying note on the stupidity of people, we had one chap come in who needed a jerry can, didn't like the fact the cheapest one was about £7 so wonders off to the other side of the shop. He comes back to me (at the till) with a 2.5 litre bottle of water. I ask him if he's planning on emptying it and putting petrol in there. Yup, he sure was, and he got rather cross when I pointed out the myriad of reasons he wouldn't get authorised to fill it with fuel... madness.

DigForVictory

Not sure what the law says, but the forecourt signs are very clear.

Metal 10L cans OK, plastic 5Ls OK, but no more than 2 of either.

Staff not exactly jobsworths, but usually well drilled both as spill & economic risk.

specialboy

The limits are set by the garages, I used to travel round the country to various forecourts sometimes upto 8 a day buying fuel for a well known manufacturer so that they cold do comparisons against their own products and used to fill 200L drums in the back of a van, the only problem I had was that the pumps would trip out at 100L and I'd have to get the cashiers to restart them for me, never had any problems as I suppose they were grateful for the business.

The amount of stamps and points collected was fantastic.

MX5huggy

Lomast wrote: »

Also some filling stations are quite hot on people filling up Jerry cans,

my local Sainsburys wont let me fill 20L cans with Diesel for my generator despite there being no law on how much diesel can be stored as its not considered as a dangerous product unlike petrol but they have been told not to let anyone fill 20l cans and they wont.

You could of course run your generator on Red Diesel.

molerat

cootuk wrote: »

I used to have an ex army Landrover that had metal fuel tanks under both front seats and you lifted the seat cushion to access them. Some forecourts refused to turn the pumps on as they couldn't believe you could have fuel tanks in the cab.
Nice smell afterwards though.

Those were the days, splashing around on the cab floor after you had filled up with red without anti-foaming agent