Suspended - help please

Jobseeeker

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Again, employers , although many think they are, are not employment judges. They cannot decide what is fair. Did your friend take their employer to an employment tribunal . If so, what was the outcome ?

It wasn't a friend, just someone in the team next to me at work. But no, I don't think they went to a tribunal

Jobseeeker

RiverStar wrote: »

Hi Jobseeeker,
I've began applying for other jobs, just in case.
I really don't want to resign as l do like where l work, and also how woild l explain resigning on cv or at interviews?
I am the only one that performs my job role there, am knowlege about day to day running of things and l am very good at what l do.

RS

Yeah, that's the problem. I was thinking try to get something quickly enough to make it look like you're leaving for the new job.

RiverStar

Jobseeeker wrote: »

Yeah, that's the problem. I was thinking try to get something quickly enough to make it look like you're leaving for the new job.

Ah, yes, hopefully it may work out like that.

Ozzuk

I was wondering if there was more to it, shame that we've spent several pages advising on what seemed like a crazy witch hunt.

I think you are on dodgy ground this time as its not so much your use of time but misuse of company IT equipment. One man (or womans) sexy is another mans offensive material which many policies specifically mention.

But I certainly can't give you any better advice than Philanthropist so I'll just wish you luck.

Kayalana99

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

Again, employers , although many think they are, are not employment judges. They cannot decide what is fair. Did your friend take their employer to an employment tribunal . If so, what was the outcome ?

Only a small fact , but any sending out of emails by OP to their pvt email addy was done when on unpaid break. Some 50% of UK employees do this. If they were all dismissed the economy would collapse. The email wording , if prima facie obscene, may well have triggered IT detection software, and raise concerns that any publication thereof could damage company reputation via misuse of company property. In this instance the material was apparently not published. May be hard for employer to justify summary dismissal.

I suppose worded like that who could not agree with you. :beer:

My main concern was the lying about it as well though - if Riverstar had come clean and admitted it...I would of thought they would have a case with that alone? Surely if someone is acting untrustworthy that would be grounds for dismissal, that said I do have a pet peeve for liars.

I have no idea what happened with OH's Dad, I get the gist of it is that they say he did it and he said he didn't and he was 'fighting it' but.... OH never heard anything else after that and they are pretty private people...saying that if they had won/lost it would of come out. Perhaps they just never followed though.

PHILANTHROPIST

Jobseeeker wrote: »

Yeah, that's the problem. I was thinking try to get something quickly enough to make it look like you're leaving for the new job.

You are spot on JS; getting a new job in the OP's circumstances can be a problem. As if employers do not have enough control over their employees on occasions they can even muddy the waters in respect of a former employee's future career prospects, for example by either refusing to give a reference ( i.e. by giving the classic two line neutral reference - which can also raise alarm bells to a prospective employer). Worse still a reference is given which a former employer believes to be true .... e.g. ... " Mr Bloggs worked from date x to date x as a x . Towards the end of Mr B's period of employment he was accused of x , but left before the disciplinary process was concluded." On balance the former , albeit potentially vindictive, employer may be being factual and "honest". But, it could lead to Mr B having his job offer withdrawn.

Not saying this would happen to OP. But it's a concern.

The OP's circumstances cry out for a compromise, which (assuming OP did want to leave) should ideally include an agreed positively worded reference from ex employer. A potentially valuable document.

Re employer's control over employees. It is substantial. Time and time again I used to come across employers who complained that employment law and practices were pro employee. Yes, prior to the recent introduction of the ET fee regime some employees did try it on by submitting vexatious claims with low prospects of success.

However, for the main part, and whilst maintaining impartiality, as time progressed it dawned on me that employers often see themselves as the victims.

What is really disturbing is that even when employers are adjudged to have for example dismissed an employee unfairly and been ordered to pay damages (called an "award") then based on recent evidence (not yet published) some 50% of awards are currently being not being paid out by employers to the true victims; their former employees - is that fair ? An article from 2009 (see link below) affirms this evidence, albeit I understand things have got worse since :

http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/docs/employment-tribunal-awards.pdf

Hope the above makes sense !?

PHILANTHROPIST

Kayalana99 wrote: »

I suppose worded like that who could not agree with you. :beer:

My main concern was the lying about it as well though - if Riverstar had come clean and admitted it...I would of thought they would have a case with that alone? Surely if someone is acting untrustworthy that would be grounds for dismissal, that said I do have a pet peeve for liars.

I have no idea what happened with OH's Dad, I get the gist of it is that they say he did it and he said he didn't and he was 'fighting it' but.... OH never heard anything else after that and they are pretty private people...saying that if they had won/lost it would of come out. Perhaps they just never followed though.

Thanks K. Appreciate that. To be clear OP has not lied. The OP has to date not even been shown any evidence in respect of which they can agree (ie put hands up and say sorry) , challenge said evidence, or present alternative evidence with may substantially alter the landscape. We're only at the investigation stage. Which lasted a mere 10 minutes ; somewhat sinister !

All I understand the OP has been asked to date is something along the lines of whether or not they've been using work's equipment for !!!!!!. The OP said no, and that is accurate. Regardless, of one's prudishness and moral beliefs "story telling" is on balance an art. In the extreme it may be seen as being obscene. But that's a matter of judgment; could an employer dismiss for such an act - yes, but a difficult decision to justify to an open minded judge , of which surprisingly there are many, particularly in the Tribunals service.

RiverStar

Today l received a disciplinary hearing letter. The meeting is on Monday 17th March.
It stated that a senior manager will be chairing and the accuser who supended me, held the subsequent investigation meetings will be present to show evidence.

Is this allowed?, l thought that anyone having any part in the allegations/investigation wasn't able to conduct or be part of the hearing panel?

PHILANTHROPIST

RiverStar wrote: »

Today l received a disciplinary hearing letter. The meeting is on Monday 17th March.
It stated that a senior manager will be chairing and the accuser who supended me, held the subsequent investigation meetings will be present to show evidence.

Is this allowed?, l thought that anyone having any part in the allegations/investigation wasn't able to conduct or be part of the hearing panel?

Noted. Let me reflect upon your query. You ask some good questions !

You have formerly confirmed that you work for an employer who would be deemed to be a large company. My gut is that it may on balance be fine to have an investigator attend as a so called witness, but the fact that a large company has seen fit to have your accuser also be the "investigator" still appears dumb and as such that apparent breach of good practice may in time come back to somewhat haunt them.

A more important question for you. What evidence have they disclosed ? Are you going to bring any witnesses ? Who is going to accompany you ? If you feel any such info may be unsuitable for an open forum then by all means PM me, or any other MSE member you feel comfortable with. For my part you have my assurance of confidentiality.

RiverStar

Phil,
Evidence sent to me is 11 emails (over a year) between me and my partner. Most is general talk, some is a moan re work.
Images of penpal in pool and a conversation (roleplay).
A story l had written and emailed to myself.

Email confirmations of 3 purchases to works email address, work wanted to me to buy a book and l register and bought a book for work but when l realised my mistake for own purchases, l changed email address to my own (this was last year).

Still, rightly or wrongly, these emails were between my partner and myself only, never to a person related to my work or member of general public.

Called union amd waiting on someone getting back to me.