*Vent* RSPCA!

powerful_Rogue

BBQ141 wrote: »

It is indeed the "bread and butter" of store security, none of whom I've ever seen arresting someone on suspicion.

In order for the store detective to arrest someone for theft they would need to see the person select the item, conceal it and then attempt to leave the store without paying. Then they could use any person powers and execute an arrest.

However, having the alarm go off and then the person who is believed to have activated it refuse to show a receipt is not grounds for an arrest. There is no law which requires someone to show proof of purchase to a store detective.

Its called suspicion, which is mentioned in s24 PACE that I have quoted. They dont need to have seen the actual offence take place.

Of course there is no legislation saying you must show your receipt, however when the alarm goes off, the majority of people do show their receipt, after all, why wouldn't you?

So the alarm sound and refusal to show proof of purchase leads to suspicion that a theft has taken place.

BBQ141

The suspicion mentioned is the suspicion that the person has committed the offence, an offence which is known. However, in this case the suspicion falls on the offence, insofar as you only suspect the offence has been committed, not that you know the offence has been committed and that you suspect that person has committed it.

There are a lot of people who would show their proof of purchase, I would just to get on my way, however there are also a lot of people who wouldn't, and would see it as some kind of invasion of their privacy or police state.

powerful_Rogue

BBQ141 wrote: »

The suspicion mentioned is the suspicion that the person has committed the offence, an offence which is known. However, in this case the suspicion falls on the offence, insofar as you only suspect the offence has been committed, not that you know the offence has been committed and that you suspect that person has committed it.

There are a lot of people who would show their proof of purchase, I would just to get on my way, however there are also a lot of people who wouldn't, and would see it as some kind of invasion of their privacy or police state.

Your trying to look far to deep into something which is very simple.

1) You witness someone commit the offence
OR
2) You have suspicion that someone has committed the offence. The suspicion being the alarm sounding and the person refusing to show any proof of purchase.

BBQ141

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Your trying to look far to deep into something which is very simple.

1) You witness someone commit the offence
OR
2) You have suspicion that someone has committed the offence. The suspicion being the alarm sounding and the person refusing to show any proof of purchase.

I don't think I am, I seem to recall being trained on this aspect of PACE many years ago and this was the training officer's interpretation.

I would challenge you to arrest someone in these circumstances, should you ever find yourself in them, and see how you fare.

powerful_Rogue

BBQ141 wrote: »

I don't think I am, I seem to recall being trained on this aspect of PACE many years ago and this was the training officer's interpretation.

I would challenge you to arrest someone in these circumstances, should you ever find yourself in them, and see how you fare.

Ive been there and had the training. Although now days im in a different aspect of law enforcement, I have been taught about s24a PACE.

Seems we will have to call stalemate in this situation.

BBQ141

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

Ive been there and had the training. Although now days im in a different aspect of law enforcement, I have been taught about s24a PACE.

Seems we will have to call stalemate in this situation.

It would seem we will, if I ever happen across said situation I shall report back here.

eskimo26

As i understand it you have be completely sure if your using any person powers or you could face charges yourself if your wrong.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q508.htm

potential for civil litigation - the courts are sympathetic to public spirited citizens and the exercise of their powers and rights, however, if you get it wrong you could be sued for unlawful arrest and/or false imprisonment.

Most security guards get away with it because no one thinks to challenge them and people don't really know the law.

If a security guard said please follow me sir, I would say no. He can have my details or search me on the shop floor with my permission.

Having said that there is nothing to stop a store barring you if your difficult which i think is spiteful for exercising my rights.

Gargleblaster

I got home from work yesterday find my 76 year old mother shaking like a leaf and crying because of a note shoved through our letterbox from an RSPCA inspector who had called earlier in the day investigating a (malicious) complaint made against us of animal cruelty from one of our lovely neighbours. She was terrified that they were going to take my late father's dog away from her.

I had no luck from the cruelty hotline number that was on the note so I called the local police community officer who came round and was satisfied no harm has been done and knows about the harassment we have received in the past.

He left his card and instructions for me to pass it on to the inspector when she decides to show her face again. He's going to explain the situation to them and try to get the name of the neighbour who reported us out of them - although there is not much hope of that sadly.

I couldn't believe it. A charity worker with a silly uniform shoves an intimidating note through our door and then leaves my mum to stew while she sods off on her Easter hols without a care for the distress she was causing.

kerri_gt

Gargleblaster, I empathise with your mothers situation, however the officer wasn't to know the allegation was unfounded. What about if it was a true case of cruelty and they had done nothing about the report?

Gargleblaster

kerri_gt wrote: »

What about if it was a true case of cruelty and they had done nothing about the report?

What if I had come home to work and found my mother dead from a heart attack? What then?

When I worked for a charity my instructions were clear. If I ever suspected any form of abuse or neglect I was to call the police straight away, not faff around dressing up like Lt. Columbo and acting out my fantasies for being a great detective.