OPC Parking Tickets issued at flats - WIN AT POPLA!!

Tramline

Coupon-mad wrote: »

That sums up the illiteracy of OPC. I did say above ''they were always worth a laugh previously with their documents and letters''!

But we need to see a photo of that sign really (it's easier to see a pic!) and we need to see both sides of any NTK letter.

I have just typed out the PPC wording as I'm not able to download any photo's until the weekend - so until then this is what the PPC says:

ISSUE OF PRIVATE PARKING CHARGE
Issued pursuant to the terms and conditions clearly displayed within an OPC area

PPC No. XXX XXX

I, OPC Parking Attendant No XXX state the facts in this PPC are true.

I have issued this PPC to The VRM No: XXXXXXX

Vehicle first seen at XX:XX [time} On the XX / XX / 2014 [date]

Excise Licence No: XXXXXXXXX

Make: XXXXXX : Model XXXXX : Colour: XXXXX

As seen in: THE LOCATION OF THE FLATS

Ticket issued at : XX:XX[time] On the XX / XX / 2014[date]

For: No Permit Displayed in Windscreen Area [reason for issue]

pursuant to the terms and conditions clearly displayed within the OPC area.

Photographic evidence taken (please tick) ticked

Signature.......squiggle provided...

You must pay the sum of £100 within 28 days of this ticket being issued. The charge will be reduced to £50 if received within 14 days of this ticket being issued
PLEASE DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT

---

ON THE REVERSE OF THE TICKET IT READS AS FOLLOWS.......
OPC
This private parking charge has been issued by an operative of OPC whilst parked or stopped within an area under patrol by OPC.

OPC act on behalf of the land owner or their representative, to perform parking control services. The circumstances under which a private parking charge will be issued can be found on the boards clearly displayed upon the property where the private parking charge was issued.

In the event of non-payment, registered keeper details may be requested from DVLA

OPC is a trade name for Observices Parking Consultancy Ltd. Reg Number : 03182298 registered address: The Studio St Nicols Close Elstree Herts WD8 3EW

---

Then there is a another section which gives the ‘How To Pay’ details ...i.e name / address / what card payment options etc

ON THE REVERSE OF THE PAYMENT SECTION ............IT STATES;
Payment of £100.00 must be received within 28 days of issue of this private parking charge. If payment is received within 14 days of date of issue, the reduced charge of £50.00 will be accepted as settlement.

BY POST.....blah blah addresses and details about cheques etc and telephone numbers etc

THEN IT STATES;
OPC shall hold you liable for any additional expenses in the event that court action becomes necessary for enforcement. This will include but is not limited to court fees, associated costs of attending and interest.

Any appeal must be received in writing at the address above or via email to [EMAIL="appeals@observices .co.uk"]appeals@observices .co.uk[/EMAIL] within 28 days of date of this ticket.

If your appeal is rejected you will be provided with details of how to refer the matter to the independant appeals service: Parking on private land appeals (POPLA).

If payment is not made within 28 days, the registered keeper will receive a ‘Notice To Keeper’ setting out details of a proposed action to be commenced in a county court if payment is not received 28 days after that notice is sent.

That Notice will also describe how the keeper may make formal representations objecting to the issue of the private parking charge.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

I would guess that a reasonable person reading that sign would read the opening introduction about intent, described in terms of authorisation and permission, and conclude that the details of the notice did not apply to residents, just for people who knew that they were not regular users, unauthorised persons. Clearly a resident who once had a permit is an authorised parker, regardless of the subsequent detail.

I suspect therefore that there is a case that this is an unclear or unreasonable contact.

To discourage unauthorised use of the area a charge will be made to anyone who uses the area without authority

I read that as saying that they will not charge anyone who has authority. Regardless of permit, the resident clearly has authority to park.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

Having had a further thought, based on a conversation with trading standards there is a fundamental issue of reasonableness in any contact. TS implied to me that if there were problems over badly issued tickets it wasn't really a problem because there was an appeals process and clearly their assumption was that the ticketers would act reasonably. We know it is a scam and they deliberately do not act reasonably.

In this case a reasonable person would think on entering into this contract, I am displaying a permit as a favour to the administrators of the car park however my permission to park is fundamental to my lease agreement. However, on the occasions where I make an occasional mistake, I expected the parking administrators to have a simple and reasonable process to cancel tickets issued on proof of residency. There are many cheap simple and obvious ways the administrators could minimise the issuing of improper notices, for example holding a list of number plates that were white-listed. You might expect then a notice from the administrator that you were causing them a nuisance. Remember, that notice says that they are administrating the car park on your behalf, an authorised user.

Tramline

4consumerrights wrote: »

Sorry can't remember start of thread -
are you renting or is this your own property?
What are the terms of your rental agreement or defined lease agreement regarding parking and permits?

The flat is rented. To be able to park resident's have to apply on an individual basis to the facilities Manager.


As a reminder when I appealed to OPC their response included the following two opening paragraphs


Here is the actual wording from OPC

"Having reviewed the photographic evidence for these PPC’s carefully, we are confident that they prove that no permit was displayed at the time off PPC issue in both instances. The permits for this location are blue with a holographic logo, and the parking attendants thoroughly inspect the windscreen before taking the photos.

The OPC signs state that permits must be clearly displayed within the front windscreen.It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure permits are properly and securely displayed before leaving their vehicle within the controlled area. If a permit has not been properly displayed the vehicle cannot be identified by our parking attendant and a Private Parking Charge will be issued."


If their parking attendant chooses not to inspect the windscreen and ignore the permit displayed , what chance does anyone have when it comes to photographic evidence?


They take a photo of the windscreen in such a way that unless a closeup of the permit is taken all anyone can see is a vague area where the permit sits - i.e top front centre of the windscreen. To see the permit you have to zoom in on the actual permit and photograph it - something they do for the Tax Disc so they can get your DVLA details but ignored my permit on display.


The way they choose to take the photos is a scam designed to put the onus of proof of display on the keeper, yet their windscreen photo is taken in a way you cannot `clearly` prove the permit is there.


It's a total con.


I will upload photos of the signage and the PPC this weekend.


I will not approach POPLA until the forum have agreed a form of words for the appeal. I do not want to be the first POPLA appeal failure - I am determined to win.


The facilities manager at the flats was very smug and their defence of OPC was sickening, so to win would bring me great satisfaction.


Thanks once again for all your help and support!

Half_way

They dont need to photograph the tax disc to get the details from the DVLA, the status of the tax disc is completely irrelevant as they can obtain registered keeper details from the DVLA via the number plate.

As for this

The flat is rented. To be able to park resident's have to apply on an individual basis to the facilities Manager.

have you asked the landlord to actually check, or if you can see the lease agreement for the flat, you will be ( or maybe not be) surprised how many people believe the claptrap that the managing agents/companies come up with, especially if they may be receiving back handers from the parking company for each ticket.


If i was you i would get in touch with the facilites manager demanding that they call off their agents OCP. This is form the sticky thread at the top

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail. ''

try this twist on the above:



To the Facitlities manager, re parking speculative invoice XXX, on vehicle XXXXX
On the <DATE> my vehicle was ticketed by someone acting for OCP parking on your behalf. I am now informing you that ano loss was suffered by the landowner and that you must now insist that your agents OCP parking cancel this charge.
As this parking company are your agents you are fully liable and responsible for their actions, further more should you continue to allow OCP to continue to pursue this to the point where it becomes necessary for me to submit a challenge to POPLA I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me through your agents or anyone else acting for or on their behalf you agree to pay these costs when I prevail. ''

That may wipe the smug smile of his face.

Are you keeping a time sheet and expenses sheet for the amount of time your spending dealing with this ( including research time on here)

Tramline

I will await Coupon-Mad and Stroma's view on my next steps after I've uploaded the photo's of the OPC parking signage.

I need clear and concise instruction to structure my appeal wording to POPLA.

Thanks to everyone who is helping...it is much appreciated

4consumerrights

[

QUOTE=Tramline;64772858]I will await Coupon-Mad and Stroma's view on my next steps after I've uploaded the photo's of the OPC parking signage.

QUOTE]

:eek:Tramline - I'm hurt - you apparently don't want my view on your next steps!:D

As you already have a POPLA code it is wise to use it in this instance
we do need to see the photographs as stated - we do expect OPs to do some research and compose their own POPLA appeal - which we then review and make suggestions for alteration. The forum is SO busy and only with a handful of regulars advising we simply do not have the time to write each and every appeal.

In actual fact that counterclaim clause is the suggested way to approach all PPCs now to be included in the initial appeal - obviously you appealed without the forum so did not know or include this.

Regarding the fact that this is rented - what does your AST contract state about the need for a permit. Your contract is with your landlord and not the management/facilities company.

You need to check the tenancy agreement - especially if no mention is made regarding permits and write to OPC excluding yourself from their scheme. Your rent officer at the local council may also be able to assist you as there are laws regarding harassment of tenants and rights to peaceful enjoyment of property. Your rental agreement includes the cost of the flat/accommodation plus associated parking - there is no cause to pay charges to a third party private company who do not have any proprietary interest in the property or the right to offer a contract to you.:)

Tramline

4consumerrights wrote: »

[
:eek:Tramline - I'm hurt - you apparently don't want my view on your next steps!:D

As you already have a POPLA code it is wise to use it in this instance
we do need to see the photographs as stated - we do expect OPs to do some research and compose their own POPLA appeal - which we then review and make suggestions for alteration. The forum is SO busy and only with a handful of regulars advising we simply do not have the time to write each and every appeal.

In actual fact that counterclaim clause is the suggested way to approach all PPCs now to be included in the initial appeal - obviously you appealed without the forum so did not know or include this.

Regarding the fact that this is rented - what does your AST contract state about the need for a permit. Your contract is with your landlord and not the management/facilities company.

You need to check the tenancy agreement - especially if no mention is made regarding permits and write to OPC excluding yourself from their scheme. Your rent officer at the local council may also be able to assist you as there are laws regarding harassment of tenants and rights to peaceful enjoyment of property. Your rental agreement includes the cost of the flat/accommodation plus associated parking - there is no cause to pay charges to a third party private company who do not have any proprietary interest in the property or the right to offer a contract to you.:)

Lol ..4consumerrights..apologies I do value your advice! I'm just trying to keep my appeal on the rails for POPLA.

I will be setting out the wording of my appeal for the forum to assess and advise before I send it to POPLA.

Tramline

4consumerrights wrote: »

[

As you already have a POPLA code it is wise to use it in this instance we do need to see the photographs as stated - we do expect OPs to do some research and compose their own POPLA appeal - which we then review and make suggestions for alteration.

The forum is SO busy and only with a handful of regulars advising we simply do not have the time to write each and every appeal.

4consumerrights - completely agree and I cannot thank the forum contributors enough. It is much appreciated. :T

Coupon-mad

Tramline wrote: »

I will await Coupon-Mad and Stroma's view on my next steps after I've uploaded the photo's of the OPC parking signage.

I need clear and concise instruction to structure my appeal wording to POPLA.

Thanks to everyone who is helping...it is much appreciated

On the sign the wording helps your case as it says the charge is:

''To discourage unauthorised use of the area''

so that means they have to show a GPEOL, same as 99% of cases on here. So you can pretty much use any example of a POPLA appeal from the examples in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread 'How to win at POPLA' (choose one that's NOT 'ANPR cameras' so not ParkingEye nor Athena nor G24, nor Excel at the Peel Centre). Then adapt it to suit and add a first paragraph that the alleged event did not occur because the permit was categorically, permanently on display (take your own photo of how it looks and where the permit is, and show how their photos have been 'skewed').

Show us a draft appeal - even if similar to an example - and we will help you further to get it perfect. Is this two tickets, two POPLA codes?