OPC Parking Tickets issued at flats - WIN AT POPLA!!

Tramline

I have a parking permit to park my car at a block of flats in London. The permit is current and the service charge for the flat is also paid and current.

To access the car park you need to negotiate barriers using a dedicated fob key. I have been parking at these flats for over 7 years without a problem. Suddenly, OPC have issued me two PPN's within two days stating that I had not displayed the permit on the front of my windscreen. My permit is located in the top centre of the windscreen out of the drivers eyeline, however, the way they have taken their photographs the permits although visible and not clear...but the permit is on display at the front of the windscreen as per their instructions. Naturally, they took close up pics of my Tax Disc - it's almost as if they took the photo's to try and prove their case.

There is no instruction (currently) where the permit is located as long as its on the front of the windscreen and visible.

I appealed the two tickets to OPC who refused my appeal and have given me a POPLA codes to appeal through them.

I have robustly argued my case with the Flats facilities manager who agreed with OPC - I was livid and I said I'd fight this all the way.

Could someone kindly give my the advice or wording that I should use as support to POPLA please?

I would be happy to provide the exact wording that OPC sent me should it help!

Many thanks, :beer:

Tramline

Stroma

You have 2 popla codes, so appeal to them twice, you will win this providing you follow the advice in the link below

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Can I ask though is this your own bay, as in its attached to the flt and you own that, so its your land? The facilities manager is probably on commission so obviously agrees with this scam

Thanks

4consumerrights

As Stroma says - follow the advice regarding POPLA appeals.

But do OPC allege breach of contract/tresspass or a contractual charge -careful wording may be needed for an appeal depending on what basis the charge is. Looks like you also appealed from the windscreen ticket instead of waiting for the NtK.

Do you pay for the permit?
Is this a rented flat - if so what does your rental agreement say regarding parking.
If this is leasehold owned - what does your lease state.

And as above the Facilities Management employed these clowns so are more than likely on a cash back-hander. It could also be a self-ticketer on a commission.
OPC's website is also not working via the link given on the BPA's list.

Tramline

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply to my request for help.

1. OPC issued the PPN simply on the basis that in their view the Permit was not on display on the windscreen! :mad: The Permit was on display and visible, but they are stating their photo does not show the permit. In the photo the permit is visible but its impossible to zoom in - its a total con!!

2. You can apply for a resident's permit - which I did. My company lease the flat. There are about 150 parking spaces and its basically first come first served, however access to the underground car park can only be obtained by using key fobs that control barriers and a roller shutter door.

Here is the actual wording from OPC

"
Having reviewed the photographic evidence for these PPC’s carefully, we are confident that they prove that no permit was displayed at the time off PPC issue in both instances. The permits for this location are blue with a holographic logo, and the parking attendants thoroughly inspect the windscreen before taking the photos.

The OPC signs state that permits must be clearly displayed within the front windscreen.It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure permits are properly and securely displayed before leaving their vehicle within the controlled area. If a permit has not been properly displayed the vehicle cannot be identified by our parking attendant and a Private Parking Charge will be issued.

OPC strictly enforce the terms and conditions of parking to ensure the facility is managed in accordance with the agreement with the landowner/property management company who owns the parking facility. The requirement of displaying a permit ensures that the system of parking control remains effective.

On the days in question a valid permit was not clearly displayed and as per the terms and conditions this would result in parking charges being issued. We have noted your comments, however due to the above and the evidence supplied by our operative we see no reason to invalidate these PPC’s.

This decision, which has been based on the facts of the case and takes into account our consideration of any mitigating circumstances, is our final decision. You now have a number of options from which to choose:

1 Pay the Private Parking Charges at the prevailing price of £50.00 per PPC within 14 days of this correspondence. Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply and the full charge will be payable within a further 14 days.

2 Make an appeal to POPLA – The Independent Appeals Service by completing the accompanying forms or by making your appeal online at POPLA. Your verification codes, which you will need to appeal to POPLA, are 4860494XXX & 4860494XXX.

Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charges at the discounted rate of £50.00 per PPC, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £100.00 per PPC. If you opt to pay the parking charges you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

3 If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you."
:mad: :mad: :mad:

The PERMIT WAS on the Windscreen, but they chose to take a 'generic' front winscreen shot and just focussed in on my Tax Disc details...

Total joke company....:mad:

Stroma

Yes they are a total joke, you wouldn't happen to have a picture of the signs they are relying upon? If you do use timypic to host the image and place the link in the thread, just remove the http:// part of the link as you are a newbie and cannot post links right now

4consumerrights

Your POPLA appeal will be based on the charge being punitive and disproportionate either not a GPEOL or an unforceable penalty.
No authority to issue contracts.
No loss incurred to landowner.
Signage/no contract with driver.

Don't worry about the permit aspect - if the photographs they sent are obscure then this can be added as extra evidence. It is great fun to turn the PPCs own "evidence" against them (did it myself due to inaccurate photos, lack of signage, wording on ticket contradictory to signage, timing of photos and signs supplied by PPC) - PPC did not send any evidence to POPLA at all so won by default.

But if you can upload them so much the better and also a copy of the sign if you can to check on wording.

Tramline

Stroma - I will seek out these signs they refer to. I only have a mobile phone camera available and no link to a computer whilst in London.

The frustrating issue is that they are claiming no permit was on display, however it was on display but the Parking Official was clearly myopic and because the permit was not by the Tax Disc area 'assumed' there wasn't a permit on the windscreen - hopeless and frustrating.

Tramline

4consumerrights wrote: »

Your POPLA appeal will be based on the charge being punitive and disproportionate either not a GPEOL or an unforceable penalty.
No authority to issue contracts.
No loss incurred to landowner.
Signage/no contract with driver.

Don't worry about the permit aspect - if the photographs they sent are obscure then this can be added as extra evidence. It is great fun to turn the PPCs own "evidence" against them (did it myself due to inaccurate photos, lack of signage, wording on ticket contradictory to signage, timing of photos and signs supplied by PPC) - PPC did not send any evidence to POPLA at all so won by default.

But if you can upload them so much the better and also a copy of the sign if you can to check on wording.

Thank you again for your comments. I will go down all guns blazing. The attitude of OPC is a disgrace and they will not ride roughshod over me - especially with this forums' help :T

Tramline

Stroma wrote: »

You have 2 popla codes, so appeal to them twice, you will win this providing you follow the advice in the link below

xxxx......the general link provided but I cannot post...xxxx

Can I ask though is this your own bay, as in its attached to the flt and you own that, so its your land? The facilities manager is probably on commission so obviously agrees with this scam

Thanks

Hi Stroma, can you direct me to the best POPLA appeal link wording for my appeal against OPC's claim of non display of permit on my windscreen (when clearly it was on display :mad: )

Thank you so much,

Tramline

4consumerrights

Just look in the Newbie thread how to win at POPLA and follow some of the links
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

The core POPLA template has also been bounced up the forum started by Guys Dad:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816165

As I said to you above - the permit issue/display - you won't win an appeal on that alone as it will be seen as mitigation - and the POPLA assessor will in all likelihood simply gloss over it. Include it as there was no just cause to issue a parking charge and use their photographic evidence against them.

You have got a copy I take it of their "photographic evidence" and that the permit is showing? - If this isn't clear - do not even include it.

It is also important to know the wording on the signage - whether it states a contractual charge or "failure to comply" "breach of terms" as this will also guide the wording. You need to stop fuming over the permit.

The POPLA code is time sensitive so - do check the newbie thread above as there is a link to Parking Cowboys which validates the code and tells you how long you have left. If the time is up - you miss the chance!

Tramline

4consumerrights wrote: »

Just look in the Newbie thread how to win at POPLA and follow some of the links

xxxx.....links that I can't include as a Newbie....xxx

The core POPLA template has also been bounced up the forum started by Guys Dad:

xxxx....links I cannot include as a Newbie

As I said to you above - the permit issue/display - you won't win an appeal on that alone as it will be seen as mitigation - and the POPLA assessor will in all likelihood simply gloss over it. Include it as there was no just cause to issue a parking charge and use their photographic evidence against them.

You have got a copy I take it of their "photographic evidence" and that the permit is showing? - If this isn't clear - do not even include it.

It is also important to know the wording on the signage - whether it states a contractual charge or "failure to comply" "breach of terms" as this will also guide the wording. You need to stop fuming over the permit.

The POPLA code is time sensitive so - do check the newbie thread above as there is a link to Parking Cowboys which validates the code and tells you how long you have left. If the time is up - you miss the chance!

Thanks for your advice.

1. I've worked out I've around 25 days left to appeal - If I've got the PPN I must appeal as the 'Keeper' at this stage I assume?

2. Yes, I have a copy of their photo - they've taken the photo in such a way that my permit although showing, is not clear - basically they took close ups of the Tax Disc but ignored taking a close up of my permit. All you can really see is an area of white where the permit is - no detail - so on that basis should I leave the photograph out of my appeal? I suppose being a Newbie I'm wondering how to couch my appeal when OPC have said no Permit was displayed - yet, it was!

3. I intend to base my POPLA appeal on the charge being punitive and disproportionate either not a GPEOL or an unforceable penalty.
No authority to issue contracts.
No loss incurred to landowner.
Signage/no contract with driver.

I will draft my letter on this thread before sending it to POPLA so the Forum team can confirm the letter should be enough to achieve a victory.

Once again, thank you to everyone who is helping me out - and others on this fantastic forum :T