EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

[Deleted User]

Already sent 2 emails #44 to Tmobile and have received absolutely no replies from the company. Not a single READ message came through... Really do not know what else I can do now.

rectangle

Hi RC, im submitting my CISAS claim, and ive just read thru the summary bit on post #267. It doesnt seem to make sense to me in parts. If you look at the extract below, the part ive highlighted in red doesnt seem to flow. Or is it just me reading it incorrectly?

RandomCurve wrote: »

4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we give you written notice to vary its terms, resulting in an increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your material detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us giving you written notice about the changes). However this option does not apply if:

That I be awarded £100 compensation (£25 for each) for the following:

• Breach of GC 9.6 – not informed of my rights to cancel the contract, (£25)
• Breach of UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, – EE taking exclusive right to interpret what Material Detriment means, (£25)
• Brach of the duty of care owed by ignoring my legitimate requests for information. (£25)
• Breach of the requirement to act in Good faith in the way that the change in T&Cs was presented to me (£25)

ed_209_2

rectangle wrote: »

Hi RC, im submitting my CISAS claim, and ive just read thru the summary bit on post #267. It doesnt seem to make sense to me in parts. If you look at the extract below, the part ive highlighted in red doesnt seem to flow. Or is it just me reading it incorrectly?

A little googling yields the full clause...


" 4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we vary its terms, resulting in an excessive increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us telling you about the changes). However this option does not apply if:

4.3.1 we have increased the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; "

ETA - I found it on this site - www.tomforth.co.uk/orange

EnglishWelshie

Finally received the usual reply to the first email so have now sent the second one. It was the reply they have been sending out to everyone.
They mention the text sent in the reply even though it was a letter sent to me and not a text.

rectangle

ed_209 wrote: »

A little googling yields the full clause...


" 4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we vary its terms, resulting in an excessive increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us telling you about the changes). However this option does not apply if:

4.3.1 we have increased the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; "

Ok, it makes sense now. 4.3 has been quoted on its own without 4.3.1.

jakethepeguk

second response from them received, (i have 2 phones, 1 with EE and 1 with orange).

along the same lines as the others, with some slightly different wording.

Thank you for your recent emails addressed to Olaf Swantee, Chief Executive of EE.

Ofcom's recent guidance was aimed at improving transparency and fairness in contracts for customers on several issues, including price increases in contract. The update to our Terms and Conditions supports this aim and provides customers with greater clarity about price increase notification, including the instances when you have a right to cancel your contract without charge. We review our costs on a regular basis but no decisions on future pricing have been made at this time.

Your comments are acknowledged. The Universal Service Directive 2003/22/EC you refer to is implemented in the UK through the Telecommunications Act 2003 and via Ofcom's General Conditions. Under General Condition GC 9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for any customer to cancel their contract without charge.

I realise this is not the response you requested, but trust this clarifies our position in the matter.

rolf at comments acknowledged,
as this is the same as, talk to the hand?

RandomCurve

rectangle wrote: »

Ok, it makes sense now. 4.3 has been quoted on its own without 4.3.1.

I deliberately did not include 4.3.1(and suggest you do not either, but it is up to you) as clause 4.3.1 only relates to price rises. EE are trying to say to customers "you can not cancel because we have not increased prices" Clause 4.3 on its own is makes it nice and clear that a change in T&Cs DOES allow (in certain circumstances) a penalty free cancellation irrespective of price changes.


I.e I'm making the distinction clear and trying not giving EE any possible reason to suggest that I think it is a price rise. I can see their defence going along the lines:


"As RC has quote clause 4.3.1 it is clear that the claim is based on a price increase, as we have not increased prices there is no basis for a claim"


By not quoting 4.3.1 it makes it harder for EE to "sell" that particular line of defence


Maybe putting " " around the clause quote would help the clarity at post #267

nsabournemouth

EE had this off me a couple of days ago. As far as I can understand it, EE have given me notice that there is to be a proposed change in the terms and conditions, I have rejected those terms and given my notice, we have both done what is required of us.

The particular contract also hasn't been signed correctly, I didn't agree to the 'terms overleaf' when I took the contract out which might give me a little more to work with. The contract was taken out at CPW.

Link to picture


Dear EE,

As you can see the above email was sent to you 11 days ago and I am yet to be issued a response.

I have stipulated that I do not accept the proposed changes to the terms and conditions of the contract and wish to exercise my right to cancel the contract as a result. I would appreciate it if EE took time to acknowledge my communication.

On the next billing date I shall be stopping my direct debit and no further payments will be made, you will have deemed to have excepted this as per the following:

Directive 2002/22/EC
Of the European Parliament and of the Council
7thMarch 2002

Chapter IV – End User Agreements

Article 20 – Contracts

Paragraph 4


4. Subscribers shall have a right to withdraw from their contracts without penaltyupon notice of proposed modifications in the contractual conditions. Subscribers shall be given adequate notice, not shorter than one month, ahead of any such modifications and shall be informed at the same time of their right to withdraw, without penalty, from such contracts, if they do not accept the new conditions.

As I stated in my previous email I will not accept that EE are in any legal position to determine what does and does not constitute material detriment, any changes or proposed changes are enough for me to cancel my contract. I am now 11 days in to my 30 days notice.

I would very much appreciate if EE would deal with this matter with the utmost importance. For reference I have attached a copy of the letter to which I have responded to. You will also find attached attached a copy of the contract that has not been fully completed.

baldyj

Well I submitted my claim to CISAS on 3rd March - I was expecting some sort of response today (now they have had 5 working days), but I've had nothing so far.


Perhaps they're so busy with claims that response times have slowed down somewhat!

rectangle

RandomCurve wrote: »

Maybe putting " " around the clause quote would help the clarity at post #267

Thats exactly what I did. Thanks RC, your help on this forum is much appreciated by all. Im six months in to a £50/m 24m contract, so this is potentially a thousand pounds to me!!