Nan refusing residential care and Mum can't cope - what now?

Mojisola

hazyjo wrote: »

My friend's dad was transferred to a 'local community hospital' after being ill in hospital which provided full time care, but wasn't taking up a hospital bed, and wasn't a care home.

Speak with (I presume) the hospital to see if there's any such option.

Our big hospital used to have a rehab ward which was a halfway house and all the local towns had cottage hospitals - all were closed down "to save money".

Dad was in hospital for weeks and really needed to move out. He had had several reviews - physio, OTs, SS, Memory Clinic nurse, etc - who all said he needed 24 hour care. We were very lucky that he was able to move into a local, not-for-profit care home.

He really enjoyed having company from the other residents rather than having hours at home on his own. He had someone on hand to help him whenever he needed it rather than having to wait until someone turned up at home.

Sometimes residential care is the best way to care - I've seen elderly people kept at home in quite miserable conditions because the family "couldn't put Gran/Grandad in a home" when they would have been better cared for and happier if they had gone into a home.

poorlittlefish

Gavin83 wrote: »

As for the property:

How old is your mum?
How long has she been joint owner?
How long has she been the full time carer?
Does she own any other property?

How old is your mum? She's 70.
How long has she been joint owner? 20 years.
How long has she been the full time carer? Probably about 5 years now.
Does she own any other property? No.

securityguy

poorlittlefish wrote: »

How old is your mum? She's 70.
How long has she been joint owner? 20 years.

Does anyone have a power of attorney for your grandmother? Because if not, your mother is in a very, very exposed position: she's the joint owner of a property with someone who is not capable of making decisions about it, but whose agreement is needed in order to do anything. Is there an agreement about the proportions owned (where did the money come from to buy it in the first place: neither of them would have found it easy to get a mortgage given their ages)?

The rational thing to do is to sell the house and use half the proceeds to purchase a flat for your mother, and the other half to fund residential care for your grandmother. In the absence of a PoA, however, this will be very difficult. It might be as well to start the process of obtaining a PoA via the Court of Protection, because otherwise your mother's position could get very complicated.

Does your mother have assets and an income independent of your grandmother? Are they claiming non-meanstested DLA?

Mojisola

poorlittlefish wrote: »

How old is your mum? She's 70.
How long has she been joint owner? 20 years.
How long has she been the full time carer? Probably about 5 years now.
Does she own any other property? No.

The house won't be taken into account when assessing paying for care because of your mother's age.
Page 5 - https://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS38_Treatment_of_property_in_the_means-test_for_permanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

Do they own the house as "joint tenants" or "tenants in common"?

poorlittlefish

I've absolutely no idea about that, I'm afraid.

Mojisola

poorlittlefish wrote: »

I've absolutely no idea about that, I'm afraid.

For your Mum's future security, it's worth checking.

If they are joint tenants, then they both own all the house - when the first owners dies, the other one owns the whole property.

If they are tenants in common, they will each own a proportion of the house. When the first owner dies, their share of the house will be dealt with according to their will or the intestacy rules if there isn't a will.

GobbledyGook

How bad is the dementia?

The only reason I ask is because with my Grandad he had carers 4 times a day, but he believed they were only in once and 'we' did the rest of it. He was completely oblivious to them being in more. Is your Grandmother actually going to be very aware of it if your Mum gets carers in more?

If you asked my Grandad did he want something to eat or to have a bath he'd say no. Every time. If you said to him "Right here's your dinner" or "Come on now, it's bath time" he'd eat or bathe so don't just take what is being said as gospel, only take that if she truly understands it.

What does your Mum feel? If the carers could come in 3 or 4 times a day is the situation liveable? Is there a day care place your nan could go two or three times a week to give her a break.

Without wanting to sound horrible - if your mother frets and works herself into an early grave then Nan will have no choice, but to accept carers and residential care. Your Mum needs to take the chance while she in hospital and while she is (sorry for the horrid phrase) someone else's problem to set up what they both need for the future.

Gavin83

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I am not dismissing it at all for those who want to be there. I just couldn't do it to one of my own if it was not what they wanted. My grans gave up the best part of their lives to look after their families, now is the time we should do the same for them.

The difference is they had a choice in the matter, it was their decision to have children. Is it also fair to provide care if it means neglecting your own family?

Some people just aren't cut out for personal care either. While I wouldn't mind doing the basics if the needs increased beyond a certain point I could no longer do it.

poorlittlefish wrote: »

How old is your mum? She's 70.
How long has she been joint owner? 20 years.
How long has she been the full time carer? Probably about 5 years now.
Does she own any other property? No.

She'll be fine then, the property won't be taken into account.

This does of course come with disadvantages of its own though. Firstly social services are likely to be resistant and while your mother determines she needs to be placed in a home they may not agree. This does of course depends on her level of needs which none of us can determine here, it could even come down to if they see her on a good or bad day. Even if they do determine she needs extra care unless she is an immediate danger to herself it's unlikely they'll place her in a home without a full package of homecare first.

Secondly it does limit somewhat the choices of care home should it be required but given the circumstances this may be unavoidable anyway.

Mojisola wrote: »

The house won't be taken into account when assessing paying for care because of your mother's age.
Page 5 - www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Factsheets/FS38_Treatment_of_property_in_the_means-test_for_permanent_care_home_provision_fcs.pdf?dtrk=true

It's not quite as simple as this though. You can't move a 65 year old person into your house, move into care a week later and then expect to keep the house.

lostinrates

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I am not dismissing it at all for those who want to be there. I just couldn't do it to one of my own if it was not what they wanted. My grans gave up the best part of their lives to look after their families, now is the time we should do the same for them.

Its always, always been what I was going to do for my parents. One of my parents lives with me. The other not too far away.

However, as someone with health problems of my own a few issues with the 'resident' parent are giving me pause for thought and a cause to reflect that there might well come a time, indeed, if my I fears are well founded, probably will be, a time when its no longer safe for us to continue as we are. RP has become 'forgetful' leaving the cooker on a few times in the same week and taps running ....often when gets up in the middle of the night. While this has so far just been a bit of a pain the costs if this become a very regular occurrence will be significant.


More of a concern is that during the night the back door is opened and the gate, and the dogs have been allowed out, at times able to get out on to the road. And we have livestock.....on occasion I have found gates unlocked and not closed properly. We cannot rely on luck forever.

We're not at stage of OP's mother yet, but I think your situation has been a wonderful one, one we have aspired to, but one I'm not so sure anymore I can safely offer. I wouldn't castigate OP nor her mother at all for choosing otherwise.

katsclaws

jacques_chirac wrote: »

I am not dismissing it at all for those who want to be there. I just couldn't do it to one of my own if it was not what they wanted. My grans gave up the best part of their lives to look after their families, now is the time we should do the same for them.

Sometimes the decision is made for a person to go to a care home because of issues such as a female partner constantly having to try to lift a male partner who falls out of bed, especially at night. If parmedics are being called to help in this way (more often than not they are very helpful) then often a decision is made at a best interests meeting for a person to go into care. I cannot imagine that anyone wants a loved one to go into care unless it is a last resort. Some people are sectioned so have no choice. Given that care homes for self funders are often £1000 a week then why would anyone choose this option unless they can no longer cope.