Highview parking fine can you help please

cherokee

I have spent a few hours reading all around this issue so I very hesitantly am asking for help as I am still genuinely am not 100% sure what action to take.

I realise there's plenty of information out there but just can't seem to sort out my plan of action.

I had a parking fine letter back in December 2013 for overstaying my welcome at Fforestfach (Swansea) retail park. I was unaware there were parking restrictions there at all. I had a look online in December 2013 and the advice seemed to be to ignore the letter. It was addressed to my husband but I was driving that day.

I have since ignored and thrown away 2 letters. Last week I received a 3rd with the Legal Action pending blurb. Upon looking more fully into this it seems that maybe I should not have ignored the letters after all - but made some sort of appeal.

Could some kind person please advise me what to do next. The date of this last letter is 20 Jan 2014. It seems that ignoring was not the correct thing to do. But I am now unsure what action to take.

I think I am more worried as the letter is in my husbands name and not mine. As they have printed in red the stuff about "ability to obtain credit in the future etc" - I feel like I'm messing about with his credit history, and whilst I would take the chance myself, don't feel I can with my poor unwitting (and unknowing) hubby! Thanks folks

Redx

cherokee wrote: »

I had a parking fine letter back in December 2013 for overstaying my welcome at Fforestfach (Swansea) retail park.

I was unaware there were parking restrictions there at all. I had a look online in December 2013 and the advice seemed to be to ignore the letter. It was addressed to my husband but I was driving that day.

mmmm , no you did not, you had a parking charge letter, as only a judge or a court can fine you and Highview are neither ! they are a private PPC dealing with private land

you need to read this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

ignoring was a silly thing to do which brought about the current problem as you should have appealed at the first letter and then gone to popla

you also have the option of getting the landowner to cancel the charge, which should have been top of your list , with the soft appeal a close second

the debt collector letters will keep coming, not that you have to respond to them

my advice is read that thread, decide what plan you think is possible and then post that plan on here for further guidance on if you should follow it

I am assuming that from your post the driver and keeper are not the same person ?

ps:- the advice on this forum for the last 12 months is and was

do not ignore these charges if in england or wales

cherokee

Thank you Redx for responding.

Yes, I was driving and my husband is the registered keeper, so the letters have his name on them although I have opened them and he doesn't know about the fine. (Nothing sinister, I just open all the mail!)

It was unlike me to ignore something like this. When I received the letter I was panicked and I was obviously looking at old threads that were no longer quite relevant (about ignoring the letters). Maybe my mistake will save someone else from taking the wrong steps.

Will read the link thoroughly today and try to make a plan. I presume that I am going to have to deny all knowledge of the first 2 letters and cough up to receiving the most recent one if I contact anyone?


Again thanks.

Redx

its still not a fine, its an invoice , so stop using the incorrect legal term and wise up too

and so you should not presume but should read through that thread

I would suggest you send a denial letter as RK for now, trying to hook a popla code, maybe you need to tell him but do the work for him at the moment as he is liable for now as RK ?

anyway, this is what needs sending off

Dear Highview,

As the registered keeper of (reg) I'm in receipt of your parking invoice xxxxxx dated xxxxxx. I wish to invoke your appeals process as all liability to your company is denied on the following:

1) this charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) your signage does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice
3) you do not have the authority or permission to issue invoices at this location

These points and others will be raised with Popla should you not accept this appeal, and you will be expected to provide a full breakdown of of your alleged loss, and your full unredacted contract with the landowner.

If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

Please issue your cancellation within 35 days of this letter or supply a popla code to appeal to them.

Any communication that does not either confirm cancellation or include a POPLA verification code shall be reported to the BPA as a breach of their Code of Practice - the BPA recently issued guidance to all members to remind them of this fact. Such communication may also be deemed harassment and pursued accordingly.


Faithfully

they may do neither, so come back with their details on the next letter whatever happens

cherokee

Has anyone been to fforestfach? Are there signs up there about parking? And have they been there for a while? I honestly didn't see anything about parking restrictions so I don't really even understand why or who is trying to charge me. Is it a Tesco thing? I wasn't parked anywhere near Tesco, I was at the top end of the shopping area. I have searched online for ages and I can't even find anything that tells me about the parking restrictions, so I don't know what I should have paid for parking. I live 15 miles away from this area so short of driving back out there I am still mystified as to what I should have done.

bod1467

Why are you prevaricating and procrastinating? Just get on with the initial appeal.

Forget about whether the signage was or wasn't compliant - it doesn't matter. You'll just use it as one of your appeal points (both initial appeal and POPLA appeal), and at POPLA it will be for the PPC to prove that it IS compliant not for you to prove it isn't.

Redx

using that fforestfach word in the search tool brings up a few hits on here

like this one https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4208067

seems there is or was a 2 hour or 3 hour time limit

as for what you should have done, clearly not overstayed is the first one

then you should have sent the letter I posted above when the first NTK came in the post, then got a popla code, then won at popla with a suitable appeal, nil cost , end of story

the walk through in that NEWBIES thread lists those steps

what I am trying to do is rescue this by you sending that letter as if it was "on time"

otherwise there are alternatives which may work but leave that until you get your response

what you should NOT have done is waste time and then come here when its possibly "too late" to help you

cherokee

Thanks Redx - I know, I do need to get a grip!!!

Right, I will send the letter as RK.

Secondly, do I get in touch with Tesco and complain? I am not 100% sure that its to do with them but I have seen somewhere else that it is Tesco. I didn't buy anything in Tesco I had coffee in Costa and looked round the shops for the day.

Redx

cherokee wrote: »

Thanks Redx - I know, I do need to get a grip!!!

Right, I will send the letter as RK.

Secondly, do I get in touch with Tesco and complain? I am not 100% sure that its to do with them but I have seen somewhere else that it is Tesco. I didn't buy anything in Tesco I had coffee in Costa and looked round the shops for the day.

correct

correct

and yes you should be trying to get it cancelled by tesco, tesco have a good record of cancellations, so get any receipts or bank statements showing patronage etc and bending their ear to cancel it, if they do it will all "go away"

in future , read the signs and dont break any "rules" , including overstaying, set an alarm on your phone etc, whatever it takes

cherokee

I have now received the reply from Highview:

"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your correspondence concerning your Charge Notice.

This PCN was issued legally and correctly according to the British Parking Association Approved Operators Scheme.

We are fully authorised to issue charges at this site, and the amount of the charge is a genuine pre estimate of loss.

Given that the signage is displayed in compliance with all relevant laws and regulations, the fact that you were unaware of this is not considered a mitigating circumstance for appeal.

In light of this, on this occasion, your representations have been carefully considered and rejected.

We can confirm that we will hold the charge at the current rate for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence, after which the full amount will be due.

Yours faithfully,

Highview Parking Limited"

They have given me a POPLA number so I am onto the next stage.

I plan to use a previous appeal letter posted on here to Highview which won the appeal.

POPLA Reference Number:
Vehicle Reg:
PPC: Highview Parking Ltd.
PCN Ref:
Alleged Contravention Date & Time:
Date of PCN: 25 October 2013

I as the registered keeper received an invoice from Highview Parking Ltd. requiring payment of a charge of £70 (discounted to £40 if paid within 14 days) for the alleged contravention of exceeding the duration of maximum stay permitted at TESCO Woolwich Extra 6785. This issue date on the invoice is 25 October 2013.

As the registered keeper, I would like to appeal this notice on the following grounds:
1 Charge not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2 No authority to levy charges
3 No Creditor identified on the Notice to Appellant
4. Signage
5. Unlawful Penalty Charge
6. ANPR Accuracy
7. Business Rates
8. Summary

1. Charge not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
The demand for a payment of £70 (discounted to £40 if paid within 14 days) is punitive, unreasonable, exceeds an appropriate amount, and has no relationship to the loss that would have been suffered by the Landowner. The keeper declares that the charge is punitive and therefore an unenforceable penalty.
The BPA code of practice states: The BPA Code of Practice states:
“19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer.
19.6 If your parking charge is based upon a contractually agreed sum, that charge cannot be punitive or unreasonable. I require Highview Parking Ltd. to provide a detailed breakdown of how the amount of the “charge” was calculated. I am aware from Court rulings and previous POPLA adjudications that the cost of running the business (such as the erection of signage, the provision of back office services, the maintenance of ANPR cameras, cost of membership of the BPA Ltd etc.) may not be included in this pre-estimate of loss.
I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.


2. The amount of the charge is disproportionate
The amount of the charge is disproportionate to the loss incurred (off which there is none as this is a free car park) by Highview Parking Ltd. and is punitive, contravening the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997. I also consider the PCN to be a penalty because being a free car park it is impossible to pay for any overstay. There can have been no loss arising from this incident. Neither can Highview Parking Ltd. lawfully include their operational day-to-day running costs in any “loss” claimed. I contend there can be no loss shown whatsoever. The charge that was levied is punitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable) against me. The initial charge is arbitrary and in no way proportionate to any alleged breach of contract. Nor does it even equate to local council charges for all day parking, as the parking meter rate in the corresponding area is £2.50 per hour. I would question that if a charge can be discounted by £30 by early payment that it is unreasonable to begin with.
I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.


3. No authority to levy charges
A parking management company will need to have the proper legal authorization to contract with the consumer on the landowner’s behalf and enforce for breach of contract. Highview Parking Ltd. must produce evidence to demonstrate that it is the landowner, or a contract that it has the authority of the landowner to issue charge notices at this location.
I believe there is no contract with the landowner/occupier that entitles Highview Parking Ltd. to levy these charges and to pursue these charges in their own name as creditor in the Courts and therefore has no authority to issue charge notices.
I put the Highview Parking Ltd. to strict proof to POPLA that they have the necessary legal authorization at this location and I demand that the Highview Parking Ltd. produce to POPLA the contemporaneous and unredacted contract between the landowner and the Highview Parking Ltd. Even if a basic contract is produced and mentions PCNs, the lack of ownership or assignment of title or interest in the land reduces any contract to one that exists simply on an agency basis between Highview Parking Ltd. and the owner/occupier, containing nothing that Highview Parking Ltd. can lawfully use in their own name as a mere agent, that could impact on a third party customer.
I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.

4. No Creditor identified on the Notice to Appellant
Failing to include specific identification as to who “the Creditor” may be is misleading and not compliant in regard to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Whilst the Notice has indicated that the operator requires a payment to Highview Parking Ltd. Ltd., there is no specific identification of the Creditor who may, in law, be Highview Parking Ltd. Ltd. or some other party. The Protection of Freedoms Act requires a Notice to Appellant to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is…” and the Notice does not.
I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.

5. Signage
The sign at the entrance to the car park is positioned on a pole on the passenger side of a standard right-hand drive vehicle. This makes the sign difficult for a driver to see from inside the car, regardless of which side of the road the entrance of the car park is approached from. It is also difficult to view this sign without impeding the flow of traffic and pedestrians behind. I enclose photograph that demonstrate the entrance signage. The BPA Code of Practice at Appendix B sets out strict requirements for entrance signage, including “The sign should be placed so that it is readable by drivers without their needing to look away from the road ahead” and “There must be enough colour contrast between the text and its background, each of which should be a single solid colour. The best way to achieve this is to have black text on a white background, or white text on a black background”.
I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed

6. Unlawful Penalty Charge
Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a free car park, it can only remain a fact that this “charge” is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge in lieu of a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008), also OBServices v Thurlow (review, February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012). The operator could state the letter as an invoice or request for monies, but chooses to use the wording “CHARGE NOTICE” in an attempt to be deemed an official parking fine similar to what the Police and Council Wardens issue.
I therefore respectfully request that my appeal is upheld and the charge dismissed.

7. ANPR Accuracy
Highview Parking Ltd. are obliged to make sure the APNR equipment is in working order, as described in paragraph 21.3 of the British Parking Association’s Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice, version 3 of June 2013. I require Highview Parking Ltd. to present records as to the dates and times of when the cameras were checked, calibrated and generally maintained to ensure the accuracy of the dates and times of any ANPR images. This is important because the entirety of the charge is founded on two images purporting to show my vehicle entering and exiting at specific times – it’s vital that Highview Parking Ltd. produce evidence in response to these points.

8. Business Rates
As this car park is now being used for the purpose of running a business by HIGHVIEW PARKING LTD., which is entirely separate from any other business the car park services, and generates revenue and profit for HIGHVIEW PARKING LTD., I do not believe that HIGHVIEW PARKING LTD. has declared the running of their business venture at this location to the Local Valuation Office and Local Authority for the purpose of the payment of Business Rates.
I put Highview Parking Ltd. to strict proof that they have so registered the business they are operating at TESCO Woolwich Extra 6785 car park with the Valuation Office and to provide proof that Business Rates are being paid to the Local Authority, or to provide proof or explanation of their exemption from such Business Rates.

9. Summary
On the basis of all the points I have raised, this “charge” fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA CoP and also fails to comply with basic contract law.

Yours faithfully


QUESTIONS ..........
I have been unable to establish which client Highview have issued the letter on behalf of. Tesco say it was not them (if it was they said they would be happy to cancel it). I then telephoned Highview to ask which shop/client they were acting for and they refused to tell me. So I am not able to complain to any particular shop or mention the shop in the appeal.

Also the only receipt for that day I have is a costa coffee receipt to prove I spent money there. Do I include that with this appeal?

Could someone please help me again and let me know if I am on the right lines.

Many thanks

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Remove section 8
Forget the receipt, its not relevent

Its all good to go apart from that, dont bother wasting your time phoning parking companies unless you enjoy winding them up