Stealing gas and electricity

[Deleted User]

timbo58 wrote: »

Hmmmm, the ONLY thing it might be 'profiling' is low energy users' unless you're claiming they ALL also have foreign sounding names?

Apart from cannabis farms where the meter is bypassed at the start of growing after being unoccupied (i.e. no bill before, no bill afterwards) which can be spotted by thermal cameras (as other posters have stated), and low bills previously being fiddled by taking the teeth cogs off before using higher amounts, all other fiddling (i.e. the vast majority) could easily be suspected by a significant drop in bill amounts: hardly sherlock holmes territory I should think?

Frankly I don't like being told 'it's adding £30 to the average households bills' as I don't see why that should happen TBH: these companies have shareholders: are they stating they can't possibly reduce the profit they expect and are therefore adding it to bills?

Hardly any incentive for the companies to tackle the problem then is there?

It's about time all of those companies who add supplements onto honest customers bills to 'pay' for the dishonest started showing this on receipts/invoices/bills so the customer could decide whether they really wanted to pay for the companies ineptitude in dealing with theft- how about naming & shaming in the local paper when you get a conviction and giving the neighbours in the locality a rebate stating why?

I agree, at least Marks and Spencers will prosecute, even if it operates at a massive loss to the amount of the shoplifters theft in hard cash. The suppliers ( and the Police to their crime figures ) look to to the bottom line and costs involved in prosecuting them, such as that Chinese guy. The excuse is that they get off by not being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. There was zero reasonable doubt in my mind that he was operating his shop knowing full well about the super low gas consumption. It would make a huge difference if they re bound over, fined etc because as sure as hell Mr Chinese will be at it again in another shop in another town but next time will be even cleverer

bloss0m

Its sickening that those who deliberately defraud us the customer are allowed to basically just pay up what the energy companies think they are owed and not face prosecution. Maybe if the energy companies faced some of the costs of theft they would perhaps do something more to curtail this, why should all the responsibility of the theft lie with the customer? The more bills go up the more people will try and cheat the system.

It seems even those that are relatively affluent also cheat so obviously there is little deterrent like the big house shown and landlord with loads of properties. They should confiscate some of there wealth

timbo58

bloss0m wrote: »

It seems even those that are relatively affluent also cheat so obviously there is little deterrent like the big house shown and landlord with loads of properties. They should confiscate some of there wealth

Indeed.
I think the 1st thing should be the 'bill owed' they estimate and after that it should be the full costs of putting the meters back in, the investigation, the visit by inspectors, and a very hefty 'deposit' for future every supply.

Otherwise get them to pay for the energy stolen then remove the supply- for good, and make sure all other suppliers do the same.

It would soon get the message across: fiddle the meter and lose your supply forever.
If they refuse to pay yet they live somewhere affluent: take the cars, the furniture, send the sheriffs in and make it all HIGHLY visible to the neighbours.

[Deleted User]

bloss0m wrote: »

Its sickening that those who deliberately defraud us the customer are allowed to basically just pay up what the energy companies think they are owed and not face prosecution. Maybe if the energy companies faced some of the costs of theft they would perhaps do something more to curtail this, why should all the responsibility of the theft lie with the customer? The more bills go up the more people will try and cheat the system.

It seems even those that are relatively affluent also cheat so obviously there is little deterrent like the big house shown and landlord with loads of properties. They should confiscate some of there wealth

Yes , we all saw it in action at the Chinese Takeaway. They find the reason for the theft, and it was a big one at over 6 thousand pounds of stolen money. No question about any Police prescence or any Magistrates visits , its out with the calculater to tot up the "true bill " and the owner simply agrees a repayment plan.. I m sorry, but are we in Alice and Wonderland here.. crime like that to the tune of 6k equals a court appearnce in my book. the Police have told me that a cautionable offence is goods up to £120 which is why a lot of shop lifters stick to below that figure. Its only going to get worse and worse, fueled by little progs like this helping them with little tips of teeth shaving cogs on gas meters.

tinkledom

Theft, deception, call it what you want, but it goes on day in day out in every corner of Britain.
Whether it was by coincidence or not, but the law on having a vehicle taxed changed shortly after we closed down our transport companies back in 1995. We had 28 HGV's operating out of SE London and not one had been taxed for 3 years. The Met police were trying to do something but we were always a couple of steps ahead. They simply couldn't prove who was actually responsible for taxing the vehicles. Made a fortune with very low overheads.


This low level type of crime will not stop. It's too profitable with very little risk.

SailorSam

tinkledom wrote: »

Theft, deception, call it what you want, but it goes on day in day out in every corner of Britain.
Whether it was by coincidence or not, but the law on having a vehicle taxed changed shortly after we closed down our transport companies back in 1995. We had 28 HGV's operating out of SE London and not one had been taxed for 3 years. The Met police were trying to do something but we were always a couple of steps ahead. They simply couldn't prove who was actually responsible for taxing the vehicles. Made a fortune with very low overheads.


This low level type of crime will not stop. It's too profitable with very little risk.

Tinkledom i kept reading that post over and over again, i can't quite believe you'd post on a forum like this to tell what a good thief you were.

timbo58

ditto ^^^^
and it's tinkledoms attitude that simply breeds the same attitude that as it's theft against a 'big faceless/government' organisation that's acceptable, or/and because 'everyones doing it' it's fair game.

Sorry but that is pure b***ocks.
Theft is theft and a thief is a thief.

It's simple in business: if you can't afford to be legit you don't deserve to be in business, let alone with a tidy profit.
Profits are for those who work hard -not those who steal.

He had one thing right though: until the penalties are visible and very very hard there is more incentive to fiddle when it's possible.

superwoman4

SailorSam wrote: »

Tinkledom i kept reading that post over and over again, i can't quite believe you'd post on a forum like this to tell what a good thief you were.

Tinkledom is an internet troll. In his other imaginary world he's been a civil servant and a 1960's drummer with a No.1 hit under his belt.
He also posts on the benefits board that he receives £600 a week in benefits and his wife buys Mulberry handbags to keep their savings under the limit.
He's definitely a fraud!

lstar337

sacsquacco wrote: »

This little prog is a good advert for the future fiddler , showing and detailing methods which they can copy. I am complaining to the BBC about the shaven teeth scam, that s going to get them trying that one with increased !!!!s from the Ebay bloke flogging the cheap fake blue seals, ( they are a tenner each by the way )

While I understand your concern about the methods shown in the programme, I am glad the BBC is doing something to highlight the issue.

I knew these things went on, but I didn't know the scale of it, or the various ways of doing it until the programme aired. While some may see the programme as an advert for energy theft, I tend to see it as thieves will steal, and others wont. The programme by itself, will not start everybody off stealing.

The good points of the programme were showing people getting caught, and having to pay back what they owe, and not mentioning the fact that 'the law' were not getting involved.

Hopefully it may result in a few more tip-off's, since the public will have an easier time spotting the signs of energy theft. And hopefully people will be keeping a closer eye on their own supply now that they have seen how people have got away with tapping off of a neighbours supply.

Hopefully public anger (probably mostly about the £30 extra on their bills) will force some greater action from the people in charge!

[Deleted User]

lstar337 wrote: »

While I understand your concern about the methods shown in the programme, I am glad the BBC is doing something to highlight the issue.

I knew these things went on, but I didn't know the scale of it, or the various ways of doing it until the programme aired. While some may see the programme as an advert for energy theft, I tend to see it as thieves will steal, and others wont. The programme by itself, will not start everybody off stealing.

The good points of the programme were showing people getting caught, and having to pay back what they owe, and not mentioning the fact that 'the law' were not getting involved.

Hopefully it may result in a few more tip-off's, since the public will have an easier time spotting the signs of energy theft. And hopefully people will be keeping a closer eye on their own supply now that they have seen how people have got away with tapping off of a neighbours supply.

Hopefully public anger (probably mostly about the £30 extra on their bills) will force some greater action from the people in charge!

It wont start "everybody " energy stealing , but many will have seen the consequences of getting caught, just a rebill and a repayment plan
. So in effect you can have a free go at nicking,say, 5k s worth of money with no job threatening or embarassing visits to the local Magistrates court.. I have never seen any reports in my local press of any energy thieves put before the courts. Its a theft which is overlooked and condoned by the suppliers and the Police with the customers picking up the bill. there is very little deterrent at all, so that is an impertus to get more and more people having a go at it
When I mention to people on my rounds about energy theft , the commonest question is " can you show me how to do it ? and next is the surprise that there are no prosecutions. .I agree with Timbo58 that theft is theft and a thief is a thief.
BG RPU, as we saw in the Inside Out prog, concentrate on the fastfood industry, only because they are assured mostly of getting a repayment. They wont get any back money from the transient flat dwellers etc. I saw a prepay meter loaded with a 9k debt ( original tenant departed of course ) and a 2k debt is nt uncommon.
Got to add that tapping off the neighbours supply is super rare as is off a street supply, the vast majority simply open up the electric prepay or substitute/tamper with a prepay or credit meter