Subsidising his ex through the kids

wifeforlife

:grouphug:

Hi, have no great advice for you just wanted to offer my support to you. I completely understand where your coming from and I agree you shouldnt have to compensate for his morals. I applaude him for being so selfless, but tell him paying lots of money doesnt reiterate to his children thats he a good dad.

My dd does get maintenance from her Dad although shes never met him, and she would love to see him, she asks after him all the time and it would mean the world to her to have time with him, which he doesnt want. Her maintenance goes direct to her trustfund as it's for her.

Maybe if you finally get through to him that he cant viably afford such a level of maintenance anymore but maybe suggest other ways to feel satisfied as a Dad through extra time with them it might help

Sincerely wishing you all the best

Cate

Rikki

A court wouldn't expect you OH to continue with the same monthly payments if there is a reduction in his income. Court maintanence orders are flexible like CSA payments.
He needs to think seriously about what he can now afford to pay.
He can't save and have his own house if he expects to continue to pay the ex £500 a month.

Is this £500 paying the mortgage?
He left her the £80,00 equity in the property. Will he be claiming his half + interest of this when the house is sold?

What does her main income come from? She cannot claim benefits and receive maintanence.

I agree that you should not subsidize him.
He needs to understand if he can't afford to take you out (even 50/50) there is something wrong. He can't expect you to fund everything especially when he does earn a decent wage. (before ex)

If you don't sort the money issues out it will forever taint the relationship.

rumpelstiltskin_2

Stargazerlillies wrote: »

Spendless


My DP is giving her CM through a consent order not through the CSA so money is not controlled in line with benefits. I don't know whether she is getting WTC or not. I know she gets CTC and CB. TBH I haven't really got involved in the benefits side because it wasn't any of my business - until now! LOL!!!

This is Spendless replying on her hubbys id (can't be bothered to change it over). I really don't know if it makes any difference if it's not thru the CSA, however I would suggest you get it checked out at somewhere like CAB.

Justie

Stargazerlillies wrote: »

As you say it is his decision, not a decision taken by us as a couple. So how can it be right for him to make this decision without consulting me, even though this plan relies on my financial contribution?

As I am sure someone will say when you take on a partner with kids you accept the whole package and I agree with this. But what I don't agree with is not having an input into the household expenditure when your wage is a supporting factor.

I've picked out the pertinent comments:
that's the point I'm trying to make - basically how the ex fits in isn't the issue here and only clouds the issue (imo) it is about how you as a couple make decisions and communicate. I can understand the frustrations as is doesn't seem 'fair' that you work hard for the money and she gets to benefit from it but really your issue isn't with her it's with your partner so what he's spending the money on isn't really the issue.

Have you been able to say to him what you've said above - you're a couple now and his decisions impact on that so you should be as much a part of the equation as his current commitments whether they be a car loan, a mortgage, or child maintenance - what the money is spent on isn't the issue even though it's an emotive subject, it's the overall budget.

Stargazerlillies

Thanks Rikki

To answer your questions:

Is this £500 paying the mortgage?

I don't know what the money goes on. The consent order said that £500 would be classed as Child Maintanace. His barrister at the time suggested that this was a little high and that if his circumstances changed he should apply to the CSA. However, DP was adament that he wanted the whole divorce over as soon as possible and managed to get the ex down from £600 so thought it was a good agreement. FYI according to the CSA calculator based on his current wages he should be paying £390 per month.

He left her the £80,00 equity in the property. Will he be claiming his half + interest of this when the house is sold?

Nope, its all hers lock, stock and barrel. No mesher, nothing. As far as I know she has no intention of selling it.

What does her main income come from? She cannot claim benefits and receive maintanence.

I have no idea. I really have tried to stay out of this whole sitaution because whilst he was in the forces there was no problem, and I really thought it was between the 2 of them.

Stargazerlillies

Thanks for all your comments gang - I'm trying to keep up!!

This is Spendless replying on her hubbys id (can't be bothered to change it over). I really don't know if it makes any difference if it's not thru the CSA, however I would suggest you get it checked out at somewhere like CAB

He won't do anything like this. He is totally ruled by guilt and does not want to rock the boat (in his words). I think he is afraid that if he trys to get it changed then:

a. he is a bad father. he is racked with guilt about the kids and even mentioning a change gets him all upset.

b. she will come after him for more money - good luck!! we haven't managed to find any!!LOL :rotfl:

c. that the kids will become destitue. By lowering the amount the ex would either have to up her hours from 2 a day (lets give her the benfit of the doubt - this is the token job that she put before the court to say she was making an effort (even the judge apparently said she should be doing more as both kids were in full time education - a female married judge with kids BTW ) but since this seems to have dropped off the radar, or get a part time job. I have suggested that he get the CSA to reasses the amount and then as and when he can afford it make overpayments.

Have you been able to say to him what you've said above - you're a couple now and his decisions impact on that so you should be as much a part of the equation as his current commitments whether they be a car loan, a mortgage, or child maintenance - what the money is spent on isn't the issue even though it's an emotive subject, it's the overall budget.

Justie, I see your point but there is just this emotional block when it comes to this subject and I'm afraid its going to push us apart. I've tried and tried to talk about this but he just goes quiet and puts his head in the sand.

conradmum

I think you said earlier that she receives CTC and CB, neither of which are affected by maintenance payments from an ex, so I don't think she's fraudulently claiming benefits, as other posters have suggested.

In fact, there seems to be a lot of demonising the ex going on here. He feels guilty for leaving her and the kids, so gave up his share in the house and now pays her £500 a month, which is in excess of the CSA recommendation. It seems it was his decision to leave and his decision to support his children well. I don't really see how she can be blamed for this.

Regarding her getting a job - the CSA now states a blanket figure for child payments of 20% of his income. This won't change whether she's in work or not.

Getting a job which gives you 12 weeks holiday a year and has working hours between 9.30 and 2.30 is not that easy. It sounds as though she hasn't worked in a long time - because she's been bringing up his children, alone for the last few years. So she has no recent experience and has had little opportunity to update her qualifications. Any job she could get would be low paid, so if she's paying childcare outside of school hours she'll basically be paying a stranger to look after their children instead of her.

If she's still alone, all of those tasks that her ex does around your accommodation she now does herself, as well as the things she did before the split (or pays someone else to do them). Many single parents do work full time but it is bloody hard work. If she was the person who was left, she might well feel he should support their children as well as he would have done if he'd stayed. After all, he agreed to having those children too.

All of this is beside the point though really. It isn't the ex that's driving this, it's your partner. Would you feel the same if he had a sick parent he chose to support financially? Or would you find that acceptable and help him out willingly? I would stop focussing on her and insist on a discussion about finances. You're right, it isn't fair of him to expect you to support him, but it seems to me that the problem is with him, not her.

newcook

poppyscorner wrote: »

A couple of yrs ago her new OH had a job as a care assistant and he lost this job as they cut his hours I work in the NHS and at that time was a support worker my trust was recruiting at the time not wanting to see them on the breadline I gave my hubby all of the details to pass on to him where to ring who to speak to and included what I earned with and without overtime his ex's response was not thanks or anything similar she said well if she earns that much she can give me some maintainance !!!!!! I went off it.

poppy

I didn't think the CSA could include partners income to the maintenance??? I know you have to declare it if its requested but didn't think it counted???

GreenNinja

Stargazerlillies wrote: »

I'd appreciate your advice on my situation as I'm getting more and more annoyed.

To give you a bit of background, both myself and my partner work full time in the armed forces. At the end of the year he is due to leave the forces so his wages will go down, but the good news is his pension kicks in. This will mean his income will go down to roughly a third of what he currently earns.

My partner has 2 kids with his ex wife for which he pays £500 per month child maintanance. This is above what the CSA requires him to pay but this is what he wants to pay as he is adament that his kids are looked after. I've always been proud of him for this approach.

The problem arises when he leaves the forces. He is adament that he does not want to change this amount no matter what. He is in the process of buying a house, not a massive pad or anything just a modest 2 bed place. When he leaves his going to retrain as a healthcare professional so that he has a recognised qualification in civvie street that reflects what he has been doing during his career. Without this he cannot get employment in his chosen field. The course will only last 2 years and in the long run will mean everyone is much better off. The thing is that he is determined that the CM will not change and even doing the basic maths it is really clear that he will not be able to afford to continue with the current amount. If he gets a part time job then he could probably afford about £300 CM per month with me giving him £400 pm rent. He is not happy with this amount and is reluctant to even think about a change.

The major issue with all this is that he is starting to rely on me to subsidise him more and more and I can see that his plan may hinge on relying on my wages. I am really not happy about this. As much as I admire his attitude why should I be subsidising the CM!!

You may think that this is a little harsh, however I will give you a bit of background on the ex. The ex refuses to do any more that 2 hours of work a day (and TBH I'm not sure she is doing this anymore) whilst I work full time, sometimes going on long operational tours in hot and sandy places. The kids are 8 and 13 and even though they are at school she feels that she needs to be a stay at home mum even though they are not there for most of day!!!!

It really ticks me off that I work !?!**! hard to earn my pay, why should I be subsidising her through his guilt! Don't get me wrong I know that it is no picnic being a single mum, my mum raised me on her own, but she went out to work full time because she had to. I'm not saying that she should work full time but she could do a heck of a lot more than 2 hrs a day max.

TBH I think that he is racked with guilt but why should I be the one paying for it!!!I might sound like a selfish moo, but I can't help how I feel.

I've tried talking to him but he gets all defensive and on his high horse about wanting to support the kids, but I know that it will ultimately be me that ends up paying in the long run.

Please let me know your thoughts, am I being unreasonable? what can I do to get the message through that I'm not happy?

I don't think you are being selfish at all, why should your salary be financing somebody elses kids?

Stargazerlillies

conradmum,

You've brought up some interesting points there. To put a bit more of the picture into place:

In fact, there seems to be a lot of demonising the ex going on here. He feels guilty for leaving her and the kids, so gave up his share in the house and now pays her £500 a month, which is in excess of the CSA recommendation. It seems it was his decision to leave and his decision to support his children well. I don't really see how she can be blamed for this.

It wasn't his decision to leave. She wrote him a letter whilst he was serving in Iraq demanding a divorce. She said that she was not happy with being left on her own and that she wanted out ( you could argue that she knew what she was getting into as well so why pick a time when he is in the middle of a war zone to dump this on him?!?).

Getting a job which gives you 12 weeks holiday a year and has working hours between 9.30 and 2.30 is not that easy. It sounds as though she hasn't worked in a long time - because she's been bringing up his children, alone for the last few years. So she has no recent experience and has had little opportunity to update her qualifications. Any job she could get would be low paid, so if she's paying childcare outside of school hours she'll basically be paying a stranger to look after their children instead of her.


She wasn't bringing up the kids alone during their marriage. My DP tried to encourage her to go to college to qet some qualifications but she refused point blank. He offered to babysit the kids whilst she was at college and get them into clubs/childcare on the camp whilst she subsequently worked (which are subsidised by the forces) but she didn't want to know. As an additional point her parents live round the corner, don't work and regularly babysit so there isn't an issue with childcare and they wouldn't be strangers.

All of this is beside the point though really. It isn't the ex that's driving this, it's your partner. Would you feel the same if he had a sick parent he chose to support financially? Or would you find that acceptable and help him out willingly? I would stop focussing on her and insist on a discussion about finances. You're right, it isn't fair of him to expect you to support him, but it seems to me that the problem is with him, not her.

A sick parent is a totally different scenario. You are right the main issue is to get to the bottom of this with DP, however he has been so racked with guilt in not being with the kids and her insistance that she will not contribute financially is not helping the situation.