Parking Eye fine at Membury services, M4

Absolutely_Fuming

A few days ago I stopped in Membury Services on the M4 on my way to Heathrow Airport to collect my wife. I ended up staying far longer than intended as my wife had phoned to say that her flight had been delayed. This morning I received a "fine" of £100 in the post from Parking Eye which would be reduced to £60 if I pay within 14 days. They claim that their charges are clearly shown at the entrance and within the car park, but I certainly never saw them and besides which it was dark as their sneaky photographs of my car number plate confirm. I am absolutely gobsmacked that they are asking for this money and that they have sent this letter. Had I known that I had to pay if I stayed for more than 2 hours I would have gladly paid but I've never heard of having to pay to park in a motorway services before. Is there any way out of this or do I have to pay this fine?

android26

To save anyone else pointing you to this....
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

Have a read, try to get your head around things.
Ultimately, you contest that the charge is not a reflection of actual loss to anyone, signage, anpr cameras records of maintenance and compliance etc.

Good luck and happy reading for the weekend!

nigelbb

All Welcome Break MSAs are serviced by PE. There is a flat rate charge of £10 for parking up to 24 hours. According to their website http://www.welcomebreak.co.uk/about-us/parking

Payment for parking is taken at designated till points on each site, such as Eat In & WH Smith via a touchscreen terminal, where your vehicle registration details are required in order to make the purchase.

I am sure that I have never seen these designated till points. A few signs around the service area displaying this parking tariff would ensure that motorists were aware of the charge but of course prevent PE coining it with their fake charges.

Here is a very similar case to yours with a very decent POPLA appeal http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83766&st=40

Don't rush. Take your time & don't worry you won't be paying this unenforceable penalty.

Absolutely_Fuming

Thank you both for your quick responses. I will be reading all the stuff you've directed me to over the weekend with interest. However, I only have until 18th December to pay the £60 or else the "fine" goes up to the full price of £100 so how do I stand on this if I lodge the appeal before that date as I'm not expecting to get an answer from them before 18th December?

android26

Appeal to PE as a first step. The charge can't go up while they consider it. If you just mention the points that you will read about and use for a POPLA appeal, but not in detail, for example, you do not believe the charge of £60 or £100 to be a genuine pre estimate of loss, nor that the signage was sufficient, and maybe a few other points you contest. State categorically to PE that this is an appeal and if rejected, demand a POPLA code.

£60 paid now or on the balance of probabilities, nothing to pay with a robust POPLA appeal, with only an outside chance losing. But even then if you wish, you just let them take you to small claims court and challenge with advice from here and the greater knowledge and sense of injustice you will no doubt have by then. Your call really, £60 is worth a weeks wages to some, less than an hour for others. Anyone that feels bitter about paying anything for a minor transgression of some made up set of rules that you aren't made fully aware of, I'd say fight it.

From the BPA code of (mis)practice:
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/609_AOS_CoP_June_2013_update.pdf

22.6 When you receive a challenge about the issue of a
parking charge, you must stop work on processing the
charge immediately. You must not increase the charge
until you have replied to the challenge.
22.7 We consider it a reasonable timescale to allow 28 days
from the issue of the parking charge notice (in whatever
format you send it) to allow the driver, keeper or hirer to
challenge the enforcement action.

Coupon-mad

Absolutely_Fuming wrote: »

Thank you both for your quick responses. I will be reading all the stuff you've directed me to over the weekend with interest. However, I only have until 18th December to pay the £60 or else the "fine" goes up to the full price of £100 so how do I stand on this if I lodge the appeal before that date as I'm not expecting to get an answer from them before 18th December?

You won't actually be PAYING them anything! We win at POPLA stage every time!

Absolutely_Fuming

I have sent this letter to the CEO of Welcome Break and also the Site Manager of Welcome Break in Membury. I sent it at the beginning of last week and so far I have not had anything back from either of them despite "asking" for a response by return of post, so I suppose the next thing would be to phone one of them up and discuss it - I believe this has sometimes worked in the past. Failing that I'll have to send an abbreviated copy of this to Parking Eye, just in case they might cancel it (unlikely I guess) and ask them for a POPLA code.

Isn't there an element of blackmail in their charge notice? i.e. if you don't pay us £60 now we will take £100 from you in two weeks time. I have until Wednesday (I presume until the end of that day, i.e. 23:59) to cough up the £60 or else the full charge will be due.

Any further thoughts or advice anyone?


Dear Mr xxxxx,

I refer to a Parking Charge Notice, reference number xxxxxx/xxxxxx, which I, as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, have just received from Parking Eye. They allege that my vehicle was parked at Membury Services M4 on November 30th for more than a permitted two hour free period and they now wish to extort £100 from me.

Any charge such as this must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss and may not be set at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and the intention should not be to penalise the driver. The alleged overstay of the vehicle was 34 minutes so there's no way that the outrageous charge of £100 is a reasonable or genuine pre-estimate of loss. It can only be punitive with an element of profit included. Moreover they can only charge for losses due to the breach so I will not accept any nonsense from them about costs of employing staff, erecting signs, maintaining equipment etc. as these are costs that would be incurred anyway, irrespective of any alleged breach. At the time of night of the alleged breach the car park was only about ten percent full anyway so there would have been no loss of business to Welcome Break whatsoever and any new customers would have had no trouble finding parking spaces.

Parking Eye does not own the Membury Services car park and so therefore they have no authority to enter into any contracts regarding the land or to pursue charges allegedly arising. They do not, therefore, have the necessary legal capacity to enter into a contract with a driver of a vehicle parking in the carpark they do not own, or indeed the lawful status to allege a breach of contract in their name.

The parking charge notice states that Parking Eye's signage is clearly displayed at the entrance and throughout the car park. This is untrue as any signs that might have been displayed were too high and too small for any driver to see, read or understand when driving into this car park in the dark and none of them would therefore have complied with the required Department of Transport standards. No driver in his right mind would have deliberately overstayed at this car park had they been fully informed that this would incur a penalty charge of £100. The only signs that drivers focus on when entering a motorway services area are the ones that direct drivers to where they can purchase fuel or use toilet facilities and get something to eat and drink. And while on the subject of toilet facilities I can categorically state that the ones at Membury Services were the most disgusting I have ever seen at any motorway services.Every cubicle I looked in had faeces floating in the pan and there were pools of urine all over the floor mixed with sodden toilet paper. Several of the soap dispensers were either empty or not working. A serious health hazard if ever I saw one.

The entirety of Parking Eye'scharge here is based upon two ANPR images supposedly showing the vehicle entering and leaving the car park at specific times. There was in fact no sign of the actual vehicle on either picture as they were nothing more than black squares showing disembodied vehicle number plates. Parking Eye has recently had a case dismissed as there was evidence that synchronisation between the camera and the timer was faulty and so I would question the accuracy and maintenance of their equipment in this case also.

Since there was clearly no demonstrable loss to anyone and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a free car park, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge by impersonating a parking ticket. It hasn't escaped my notice that Parking Eye has used the intimidating wording 'Charge Notice' on its letter implying that this is an official parking fine such as could be issued by a Traffic Warden or the Police, whereas in reality it is nothing more than an invoice.

I do not want you washing your hands of this by telling me that I have to complain or appeal to Parking Eye. You have contracted them to 'manage' your car parks and so it is your responsibility. You need to be far more aware of the appalling way in which they currently operate and to take rapid steps to ensure that they operate responsibly and comply with all of the appropriate regulations that are in force.

I expect to hear from you by return of post to the effect that you have instructed Parking Eye to cancel this extortionate charge forthwith.

Yours sincerely,

Dr. xxxxx xxxxx

bod1467

How will they "take £100 off you in two weeks time"?

All that means is that their speculative invoice increases from an unenforceable £60 to an unenforceable £100 after two weeks. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THIS!

BrightonandHove

Well done always go for the retailer and always go for the top dog !

Cool, a Dr, hopefully that will make Parking Eye realise they are up against someone who has some intelligence and will wipe the floor with them.

nigelbb

Absolutely_Fuming wrote: »

Isn't there an element of blackmail in their charge notice? i.e. if you don't pay us £60 now we will take £100 from you in two weeks time. I have until Wednesday (I presume until the end of that day, i.e. 23:59) to cough up the £60 or else the full charge will be due.

This is typical of mind games & bullying that all PPCs use.

Absolutely_Fuming wrote: »

Since there was clearly no demonstrable loss to anyone and yet a breach of contract has been alleged for a free car park, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at extorting an unlawful charge by impersonating a parking ticket.

Not true. At all the Welcome Break service areas they charge £10 for up to 24 hours parking once you have exceeded the 2 hours free period. http://www.welcomebreak.co.uk/about-us/parking

They claim that payment for parking is taken at designated till points on each site via a touchscreen terminal where you enter your vehicle registration details. However I have never seen such a terminal & clearly they do not bring this £10 parking charge to the attention of customers otherwise there would be prominent signs regarding this charge throughout the building e.g. on Exit doors "Staying over two hours - Don't forget to purchase your £10 parking ticket"

Coupon-mad

Sorry but you really appear to be doing the wrong thing here and I am concerned you are missing your chance to simply get this thing cancelled.

Re your complaint, you sent it to the 'wrong' person because the CEO of Welcome Break has been 'got at' by Parking Eye in recent weeks. This is all explained in the 'Successful complaints about PPCs' thread, see post #3 there where it is clearly mentioned NOT to email the CEO but instead to phone up the regional manager or the site itself and get the Manager on the phone. Or to email the Head Office contact addy. NOT the CEO any more, he has been warned off by PE.

And secondly I see your complaint says:

''I do not want you washing your hands of this by telling me that I have to complain or appeal to Parking Eye. You have contracted them to 'manage' your car parks and so it is your responsibility.''

Well that's a highly risky and unnecessary strategy, when we know the CEO of WB will indeed tell you to do exactly that, and he might not reply in time for you to then do so! All you have to do is submit a challenge online to PE which will take you a matter of minutes, and then you WILL win at POPLA with our help.

Please take heed of the advice that's already here for you; there are example appeal wording links in the 'NEWBIES read this first!' sticky thread and there was a strong ParkingEye complaint template to Welcome Break in the 'Successful complaints about PPCs' sticky, as well... The sticky threads are at the top of the forum so people hopefully read them first.

Stop ''fuming'' and instead, play the game to win! The clock is ticking and you have NOT challenged this yet with PE, have you?

If you fail to appeal in time then in 2014 you can look forward to a court case - and most people still lose against PE's solicitors at the moment.