The economy needs just-in-time deliveries

antrobus

angrypirate wrote: »

Its already being done in Paris and Dublin. As for the success?Last year there were no cyclist deaths on the roads in Paris

Oops wrong. "Cinq accidents mortels en 2012". Which I think means there were five fatal accidents last year in Paris.

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1091307-cycliste-meurt-ecrasee-camion-a-paris

2011 was the year when there were no cycling deaths in Paris.

angrypirate

antrobus wrote: »

Oops wrong. "Cinq accidents mortels en 2012". Which I think means there were five fatal accidents last year in Paris.

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/1091307-cycliste-meurt-ecrasee-camion-a-paris

2011 was the year when there were no cycling deaths in Paris.

I was just quoting the good old BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24999302

"In the centre of Paris, where there are restrictions on lorries, there were no cyclist fatalities last year, according to the Prefecture of Police of Paris."

angrypirate

antrobus wrote: »

Actually what the Highway Code says is;

never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

Which means you are allowed to cycle two abreast but be considerate depending on road conditions.

antrobus wrote: »

I think that's what the Highway Code means by a "narrow road".

It also says give cyclists as much room as you would a car
Rules 163
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car

If a car were to leave this much room, it shouldnt effect them whether im single file or 2 abreast.

When im cycling single file i would say the majority of people dont give me as much room as they would for a car. In fact its not uncommon to see cars inches away from my handlebars when they overtake.

bugslet

i tried understanding that 0 cyclist deaths on the cycling forum, but the answer i got back was oblique - or maybe I am thick.

O accidents? If there are 0 accidents by any form of vehicle, then it would indicate other factors - better road layouts for cyclists, better road user awareness by cyclists and drivers alike.

I just wondered if there are other things that can be taken from Paris as well.

On the cycling x many abreast, there was a really frustrating moment a few weeks back. The kennels I use is on a country lane, narrow as in two cars can pass by but you tend to slow down if a truck or tractor is coming the other way, but not pull over. From where I turn onto the road it's about 4 miles to the kennels, there must have been some sort of road race on because there were hundreds, possibly into four figures, cyclists on the road, three, sometimes four abreast and covering two thirds of the whole road. i was travelling in the opposite direction to the cyclists. Coming round a bend, and I wasn't travelling especially fast, a motorhome is trying to overtake the cyclists:eek: and it very nearly caused deaths. In that case both the motorhome and the cyclists were at fault it would seem. Though for something like that, I'm surprised that they didn't close the road. I did stop by one chap directing them and ask for details as a strongly worded letter was about to be written to the organisers and the council as it was so dangerous. He didn't ahve the full details, but his words ( not mine) were, 'they put the helmets on and leave their brains at home'. I was tempted to agree.

antrobus

angrypirate wrote: »

I was just quoting the good old BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24999302

"In the centre of Paris, where there are restrictions on lorries, there were no cyclist fatalities last year, according to the Prefecture of Police of Paris."

So you have a source for the error. Still wrong though.:)

angrypirate wrote: »

Which means you are allowed to cycle two abreast but be considerate depending on road conditions.

It also says give cyclists as much room as you would a car
Rules 163
give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car

If a car were to leave this much room, it shouldnt effect them whether im single file or 2 abreast.

When im cycling single file i would say the majority of people dont give me as much room as they would for a car. In fact its not uncommon to see cars inches away from my handlebars when they overtake.

I think the instruction to "ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends" is pretty self-explanatory. It tells you as a pedal cyclist what you should do.

antrobus

bugslet wrote: »

i tried understanding that 0 cyclist deaths on the cycling forum, but the answer i got back was oblique - or maybe I am thick....

They probably didn't know the answer.

For one thing, the zero deaths figure is for 2011, and for another thing by 'Paris' they mean the metropolitan bit, unlike London which normally means Greater London. So people have been comparing apples with pears.

It is claimed that Paris's lorry ban helped it remain free of cyclist deaths in 2012. Untrue: greater Paris had 17 cyclist deaths last year. Central Paris, equivalent to our Zone 1, had five – four more than central London.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/20/london-cyclist-deaths-panic-change-wont-work

So if central Paris had no cyclist fatalities in 2011, and central London only had 1 in 2012, things don't look so different.

TruckerT

custardy wrote: »

http://grist.org/list/one-mile-on-a-bike-is-a-42-economic-gain-to-society-one-mile-driving-is-a-20-loss/

A forward thinking city.

http://kk.sites.itera.dk/apps/kk_pub2/pdf/823_Bg65v7UH2t.pdf

Your first link is about commuters' choice of vehicle, and makes no reference to the economics of the haulage industry. The second link probably says much the same, but it is long and hard to read so I bottled out. There is very little disagreement with the idea that biking gives a better workout than sitting in a car seat. The same would apply to roller-blading or pogo-sticking.

I would be interested to know how businesses in Paris organise their delivery schedules around the restrictions on HGVs - I haven't been to Paris recently, and I don't remember noticing much of a network of cycle routes.

Are you sure that the truck restrictions in Paris were initiated in order to allow the free passage of cyclists? Is it possible the small number of cyclist fatalities is due to the small number of cyclists?

TruckerT

custardy

TruckerT wrote: »

Your first link is about commuters' choice of vehicle, and makes no reference to the economics of the haulage industry. The second link probably says much the same, but it is long and hard to read so I bottled out. There is very little disagreement with the idea that biking gives a better workout than sitting in a car seat. The same would apply to roller-blading or pogo-sticking.

I would be interested to know how businesses in Paris organise their delivery schedules around the restrictions on HGVs - I haven't been to Paris recently, and I don't remember noticing much of a network of cycle routes.

Are you sure that the truck restrictions in Paris were initiated in order to allow the free passage of cyclists? Is it possible the small number of cyclist fatalities is due to the small number of cyclists?

TruckerT

The 1st link relates to the gains for society
whether it be cyclists,trucker or whatever

Which means that Copenhagen, a city of 1.2 million people, saves $357 million a year on health costs because something like 80 percent of its population commutes by bicycle, even in winter. That’s $300 per person per year.

seems pretty clear?

TruckerT

custardy wrote: »

The 1st link relates to the gains for society
whether it be cyclists,trucker or whatever



seems pretty clear?

Yes, but where is the bit which says that cyclists will be able to ensure that even their own requirements for specialist clothing and high-energy sweetie bars etc can be met without the use of trucks?


TruckerT

custardy

TruckerT wrote: »

Yes, but where is the bit which says that cyclists will be able to ensure that even their own requirements for specialist clothing and high-energy sweetie bars etc can be met without the use of trucks?


TruckerT

Sigh,where in the article did you see any mention of HGVs?
Take the blinkers off
This is about a change in social attitude and seeing long term goals,not where the next Yorkie is coming from
You think people in Copenhagen dont buy things?