What shortgage 421,306 homes built in a single year in france!

cells

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Well, land mass is an obvious point. They have far more of it, so I would assume the density of their land isn't quite the issue ours is.

Apart from that, I don't know. Certainly interesting and certainly wipes out some of the "banks wont lend so builders wont build" arguments, as I believe lending in France was even tighter than here.

No NO NO NO & no

Government policy dictates build rates not the amount of land which in both countries (and virtually all others) are for all housing intents infinite vs needs.

this is very easy to prove.
Scotland has 6x the land per capita of England is their build rate per capita 6x higher? NO! It is the aame as the uk becuase theu operate similar development land systems

So please stop spreading what is clearly wrong

cells

Generali wrote: »

OP - do you have a link to the data source please? It's almost impossible to tell anything from a simple list of numbers.

The relative ease of building is probably the biggest difference between France and the UK. The UK hasn't built enough houses for decades.

The French equivalent of the ONS
Google INSEE

there is an English version if yoy don't read French

It lists housing for each month going back decades

Generali

Cheers cells. I can (kinda) read French so I'll give the V.O. a go first.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

cells wrote: »

The French equivalent of the ONS
Google INSEE

there is an English version if yoy don't read French

It lists housing for each month going back decades

How much of that was social housing?

And on another note Cells, we've had this argument many times elsewhere.

We both agree the UK doesn't build enough houses.

We both agree that over the long term, the main cause is restrictive planning. That's what was limiting building to just under 200K a year by 2007.

For the last few years however, the main cause has been lack of mortgage lending and lack of development finance for builders. That's what caused it to drop from nearly 200K in 2007 to around 100K by 2009.

Dunroamin

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

How much of that was social housing?

And on another note Cells, we've had this argument many times elsewhere.

We both agree the UK doesn't build enough houses.

We both agree that over the long term, the main cause is restrictive planning. That's what was limiting building to just under 200K a year by 2007.

For the last few years however, the main cause has been lack of mortgage lending and lack of development finance for builders. That's what caused it to drop from nearly 200K in 2007 to around 100K by 2009.

Not an enormous amount because they, like many Continental countries, have a long term, secure rental market (you can't evict tenants during the winter, for example) and reasonably priced housing is still available in many areas.

cells

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Certainly is a valid point.
Also looking at population, France is broadly similar in population to the UK, but has been growing faster

You have just confused yourself and others needlessly

The important number you want is the occupancy rate.

Or another way to express it would be.

Howany homes do the French and British have per million of population? And while we are at it what about rhe Germans?

UK. 433k homes per million people
France. 468k homes per million people
Germany. 490k homes per million

What this means is the French have 35k more homes per million of population.
The uk has 63.5 million people which means the uk would need 2.2million additional homes to have the same number the French dobon a per capita basis

The problem is however worse than this shortgage of 2.2 million homes

The bigger problem is that while the French build 4 million a decade we are currently on course to build 1.5 million a decade.

So in ten years time we will be here posting that the 2.2m shortgahe has become a 4.7 million shortgage

IveSeenTheLight

cells wrote: »

You have just confused yourself and others needlessly

The important number you want is the occupancy rate.

Or another way to express it would be.

Howany homes do the French and British have per million of population? And while we are at it what about rhe Germans?

UK. 433k homes per million people
France. 468k homes per million people
Germany. 490k homes per million

What this means is the French have 35k more homes per million of population.
The uk has 63.5 million people which means the uk would need 2.2million additional homes to have the same number the French dobon a per capita basis

The problem is however worse than this shortgage of 2.2 million homes

The bigger problem is that while the French build 4 million a decade we are currently on course to build 1.5 million a decade.

So in ten years time we will be here posting that the 2.2m shortgahe has become a 4.7 million shortgage

I don't disagree with anything you have posted, indeed I am well aware of the housing shortage in the UK and have positioned myself and my family accordingly.

As well as the occupancy rate as you rightly point out, it is worthwhile considering the population expansion (which was the point I was making in my post) in considering the ammount of properties required.

cells

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

How much of that was social housing?

And on another note Cells, we've had this argument many times elsewhere.

We both agree the UK doesn't build enough houses.

We both agree that over the long term, the main cause is restrictive planning. That's what was limiting building to just under 200K a year by 2007.

For the last few years however, the main cause has been lack of mortgage lending and lack of development finance for builders. That's what caused it to drop from nearly 200K in 2007 to around 100K by 2009.

Ues we both agree that the uk

1. Builds too few
2. Already has a shortgage

No argument there

I also do agree with you that in a healthy market mortgages and lending should be available to all who can reasonably finance it and there is no intrinsic negative in banks lending mortgages.

However where we diverage is on the primary cause.

I think then and now the problem is structural to our laws and planning regulations. Even pre crash we were building less than half of French levels

Also note this. Why why why whu WHYyyuy did French builds not crash if it were primarily down to mortgages. France in cresit crunch 2011 built almost the same as no cresit crunch 2006. Surely that is ood enough to tell tou building homes is not as dependant as you think on mortgages.


BTW I've nothing against lending more to crwsit worthy people just note if planig laws and regs don't change lwnding more isn't going to solve much




Regarding tour question how many were social builds vs private. I dont know but france has less social homes than the uk. From memory 18% Uk 16% France. If a large portion of thwor new buolds were social that figire woild be rising whicj it isn't it os falling which suggests much less than 16% of theor new builds are social

cells

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I don't disagree with anything you have posted, indeed I am well aware of the housing shortage in the UK and have positioned myself and my family accordingly.

As well as the occupancy rate as you rightly point out, it is worthwhile considering the population expansion (which was the point I was making in my post) in considering the ammount of properties required.

The ONS and INSEE project that the population of the uk will increase more than the population of France will increase overthe next decade so we should be building more than the French not fewer

cells

Dunroamin wrote: »

Not an enormous amount because they, like many Continental countries, have a long term, secure rental market (you can't evict tenants during the winter, for example) and reasonably priced housing is still available in many areas.

Housing should be provided in excess of needs. Ie we should aim for a small surplus.

In such an environment rents would be cheap and quility high becuase landlorda woild have to be competitive and offer a good service so they are not the ones holding the small excess (ie empty)

This is the case in Germany. The uk would need 4.4 million homes to match Germany on homes per capita. As you can imagine if we had 4.4m homes for the se population as now rents would be far lower and tenure more secure