Mobile Phone Contract - Price Rise Refunds

RandomCurve

Martinmal1 wrote: »

Just sent my 1st letter for 2 accounts one only taken out on the 13th Jan

Will see how it goes

Perfect - Jan 213 contract could turn out to be cheapest phone ever!!!

RandomCurve

muse213 wrote: »

Anyone who got a reply from ee today and have given them their account number/phone number, can you let me know when they reply? Just want to see what they say

Don't wait or you will miss your chance. If you want to know what they will say I can kind of tell you now, it will either be:

1. Ignore - A repeat of the price rise letter saying how nobody likes to increase prices (except EE and O2!!!) - and will ignore all the points made OR
2. Half Truths - We have complied fully with out T&Cs and GC 9.6 and that the new Ofcom definition dose not apply to contracts pre 23rd January, that RPI is a measure of inflation.

Whist I am not sure if they will use:

1. Tactic 1 - ignore your email or
2. Tactic 2 - Half truths - forgetting to mention that CPI is the OFFICIAL UK inflation rate, and that they changed the T&C on 26th March 2014 - so is subject to 23rd Jan regulation change.

Either way I can GURANTEE it won't be an apology and a penalty free PAC.


That will take another email and a CISAS claim

RandomCurve

dg-25 wrote: »

Rc you may recall me from the other thread. I an currently awaiting response from cisas about my pre Oct 12 t mobile contract. Ee have submitted their defence and I have sent in my comments. So guess it's just awaiting an adjudicator being appointed.

Point of posting here is can I also follow this route or should I await outcome of other case?

Cheers

See post #800 on the other forum.

RandomCurve

Repost - to make it easy to find!
Below is a template email to send to EE (and Orange and T-Mobile) if you would like to try and have your contract cancelled penalty free (you get to keep the phone and receive a PAC so you can port your number to another network).
Please REMOVE the text in red UNLESS you are a T-Mobile customer who entered into their contract BEFORE 30th October 2012.


I am not legally trained, but have had many battles with Mobile phone companies and Ofcom over the past year. It is up to you if you use the template or not.


The email addresses to use are:

[EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL];
[EMAIL="Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk"]Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]


Dear Mr Swantee,

Re Phone number 07XXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of early April informing me of EEs intention to increase the price of my Fixed term Contract.

Please accept this letter as my notice to terminate my contract PENALTY FREE under Ofcom Regulation GC 9.6 as the increase is likely to be of Material Detriment to me. Please also provide me with a PAC so that I can take my number to another network.

Without Prejudice.
The term “likely to be of Material detriment” in the regulatory context can be determined by understanding why the term was introduced into GC 9.6 by OFTEL and retained by Ofcom, and by reference to the source European documentation for GC 9.6 which is the Universal Service Directive (USD) USD 20/(22) for which GC 9.6 is the UK enactment. It is clear that the intention of USD 20/(22) was to give the CONSUMER the choice to cancel their contract during a fixed period for ANY modification that is made which they do not accept as follows:

USD 2002/22/EC
Chapter IV – End User Agreements
Article 20 – Contracts
Paragraph 4

4. Subscribers shall have a right to withdraw from their contracts without penalty upon notice of proposed modifications in the contractual conditions. Subscribers shall be given adequate notice, not shorter than one month, ahead of any such modifications and shall be informed at the same time of their right to withdraw, without penalty, from such contracts, if they do not accept the new conditions.

Further Ofcom GC 9.6 supports the USD implementation as the term "likely to be of material detriment" was introduced because:

"Our intention was to reflect our general duties and principles of good administration and proportionality in particular. We sought, in light of these, not to rule out contract variations altogether. For example, those beneficial to, or having a neutral impact on, a subscriber.” (from Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013”

As Ofcom's (and OFTEL before them) reasoning for introducing the term was to protect me - the consumer - from changes which are not to my benefit or at the very least are neutral then a price rise of any kind is clearly neither to by benefit, nor neutral, and are therefore likely to be of Material Detriment.

Without Prejudice
The price rise applied of 2.7% (RPI) is likely to be of material detriment to me as it is a REAL TERMS increase in the cost of my contract. The UK National Statistic for price inflation is the CPI (1.7% for February 2014 – published in March 2014) therefore any increase above this rate under GC 9.6 is likely to be of material detriment to me, as a real terms increase cannot be either to my benefit OR have a neutral impact. By using RPI rather than CPI the increase applied to my account is 58.8% higher than it would otherwise be.

RPI lost its designation as a National statistic in March 2013 as the calculation methodology does not meet with international calculation standards and has been replaced with CPI which is the statistical measure of inflation now used by Government.


Without Prejudice
In the Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013. Ofcom defined “Likely to be of Material Detriment as follows:

Paragraph 6.22
“In particular, we consider guidance is needed as to price rises which we are likely to regard as materially detrimental (or likely to be materially detrimental) and invoking the requirements of GC9.6. Such price rises are likely to include any increase to core subscription prices.”

The above definition is to apply to contracts agreed to on or AFTER 23rd January 2014. However as EE updated its’ price variation clause effective 26th March 2014 (2 months after the date to which the definition applied) then this clause of the contract was effectively agreed to and signed up to post 23rd January and therefore as per the Ofcom guidance in regards to GC 9.6 the increase in core subscriptions price is likely to be of material detriment to me.

Without Prejudice
In the Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013. Ofcom defined “Likely to be of Material Detriment as follows:

Paragraph 6.22
“In particular, we consider guidance is needed as to price rises which we are likely to regard as materially detrimental (or likely to be materially detrimental) and invoking the requirements of GC9.6. Such price rises are likely to include any increase to core subscription prices.”

And whilst Ofcom have announced that this will only apply to contracts entered into on or after 23rd January all Ofcom have actually done is clarify a definition. They have not changed the words of GC 9.6. As they have only clarified a definition then the definition must apply to all contracts as it cannot be a legally correct position that two contracts subject to the same regulation with exactly the same wording (GC 9.6) can have two different meanings.














Without Prejudice
The price rise applied to my V58 T-Mobile – which was taken out before 30th October 2012, is clearly of Material Detriment to me. In March 2013 T-Mobile were most forceful* in insisting that the Annual RPI applied to my account of 3.3% related to March 2013 RPI published in April 2013, whereas now you are applying the February 2014 ANNUAL RPI rate to the same contract. Clearly EE are not allowed to apply a 12 Month inflation rate to an 11 Month period as this would effectively be applying an RPI rate higher than the actual RPI rate in that period, and is therefore to my Material detriment.


*T-Mobile Defence to a CISAS case regarding the wrong months RPI being applied:

COMMUNICATIONS & INTERNET SERVICES ADJUDICATION SCHEME

REFERENCE: 212132298


BETWEEN


MR XXXXXXXX Claimant


and


EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE LIMITED


trading as T-Mobile Respondent
…………


19 As the Written Notice was issued in the month of April 2013 then the relevant month’s RPI figure for the purposes of Clause 7.2.3.3 of the Agreement is the RPI figure as published by the Office of National Statistics (“ONS”) representing March 2013; being the month before the month in which the Written Notice was issued. The March RPI figure, published by the ONS Statistics was 3.3%. By way of the Monthly Statistical Bulletin (“the Bulletin”) published by the ONS the following is stated:-


The RPI 12-month rate for March [2013] stood at 3.3%


The Bulletin is a lengthy document so has not annexed to this Defence but can be made available to CISAS upon request. …………


The Respondent believes that the facts stated in this form are true. I am duly authorised by the Respondent to sign this statement.


Dated the 03 July 2013


Rue Kandi


Legal Executive
For and on behalf of the Respondent whose address for service is at:
Everything Everywhere Limited
Hatfield Business Park
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
AL10 9BW.


I look forward to receiving my PAC (penalty free) with immediate effect. Should EE not consider this to be an appropriate action then please clearly articulate why this is not the case with reference to each of the points above. Any response which fails to address the specific points above would not be acceptable to me and will be used as evidence of EE’s lack of duty of care and poor customer service in any subsequent CISAS claim.

Regards

RandomCurve

Below is the follow-up email to the original email posted at #165. PLEASE DO NOT use this email until it has been at LEAST 7 days, if you do you will jeopardise your chances of claiming compensation for bad customer service.

Don’t for get to change the red text to suit your dates/days/name and remove the red text from the original email unless you are on a T-Mobile contract taken out before 30th October 2012
.
And please tell everyone you know to send the first email if they have had the price rise notification.


The email addresses to use are:

[EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL];
[EMAIL="Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk"]Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Dear Mr Swante,


Re: Phone Number 07XXXXXX

Further to my Email dated XXXX it is now X days since I sent that Email. I find the delay in responding falls way short of the customer service standards that it would be reasonable to expect on a matter that concerns my request for an IMMEDIATE penalty free termination, as per GC 9.6c and our contract.

I have reproduced my original email for you below. If I have not had a FULL response within 7 days (DATE) I will take it that EE are refusing to engage on this matter and that will be deemed to be that we have reached deadlock. I will then immediately proceed to bring a CISAS claim in regards to this matter

Regards



NAME

Original email:

Dear Mr Swantee,

Thank you for your letter of early April informing me of EEs intention to increase the price of my Fixed term Contract.

Please accept this letter as my notice to terminate my contract PENALTY FREE under Ofcom Regulation GC 9.6 as the increase is likely to be of Material Detriment to me. Please also provide me with a PAC so that I can take my number to another network.

Without Prejudice.
The term “likely to be of Material detriment” in the regulatory context can be determined by understanding why the term was introduced into GC 9.6 by OFTEL and retained by Ofcom, and by reference to the source European documentation for GC 9.6 which is the Universal Service Directive (USD) USD 20/(22) for which GC 9.6 is the UK enactment. It is clear that the intention of USD 20/(22) was to give the CONSUMER the choice to cancel their contract during a fixed period for ANY modification that is made which they do not accept as follows:

USD 2002/22/EC
Chapter IV – End User Agreements
Article 20 – Contracts
Paragraph 4

4. Subscribers shall have a right to withdraw from their contracts without penalty upon notice of proposed modifications in the contractual conditions. Subscribers shall be given adequate notice, not shorter than one month, ahead of any such modifications and shall be informed at the same time of their right to withdraw, without penalty, from such contracts, if they do not accept the new conditions.

Further Ofcom GC 9.6 supports the USD implementation as the term "likely to be of material detriment" was introduced because:

"Our intention was to reflect our general duties and principles of good administration and proportionality in particular. We sought, in light of these, not to rule out contract variations altogether. For example, those beneficial to, or having a neutral impact on, a subscriber.” (from Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013”

As Ofcom's (and OFTEL before them) reasoning for introducing the term was to protect me - the consumer - from changes which are not to my benefit or at the very least are neutral then a price rise of any kind is clearly neither to by benefit, nor neutral, and are therefore likely to be of Material Detriment.

Without Prejudice
The price rise applied of 2.7% (RPI) is likely to be of material detriment to me as it is a REAL TERMS increase in the cost of my contract. The UK National Statistic for price inflation is the CPI (1.7% for February 2014 – published in March 2014) therefore any increase above this rate under GC 9.6 is likely to be of material detriment to me, as a real terms increase cannot be either to my benefit OR have a neutral impact. By using RPI rather than CPI the increase applied to my account is 58.8% higher than it would otherwise be.

RPI lost its designation as a National statistic in March 2013 as the calculation methodology does not meet with international calculation standards and has been replaced with CPI which is the statistical measure of inflation now used by Government.


Without Prejudice
In the Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013. Ofcom defined “Likely to be of Material Detriment as follows:

Paragraph 6.22
“In particular, we consider guidance is needed as to price rises which we are likely to regard as materially detrimental (or likely to be materially detrimental) and invoking the requirements of GC9.6. Such price rises are likely to include any increase to core subscription prices.”

The above definition is to apply to contracts agreed to on or AFTER 23rd January 2014. However as EE updated its’ price variation clause effective 26th March 2014 (2 months after the date to which the definition applied) then this clause of the contract was effectively agreed to and signed up to post 23rd January and therefore as per the Ofcom guidance in regards to GC 9.6 the increase in core subscriptions price is likely to be of material detriment to me.

Without Prejudice
In the Ofcom publication “ Price rises in fixed term contracts - Decision to issue Guidance on General Condition 9.6”, Published in October 2013. Ofcom defined “Likely to be of Material Detriment as follows:

Paragraph 6.22
“In particular, we consider guidance is needed as to price rises which we are likely to regard as materially detrimental (or likely to be materially detrimental) and invoking the requirements of GC9.6. Such price rises are likely to include any increase to core subscription prices.”

And whilst Ofcom have announced that this will only apply to contracts entered into on or after 23rd January all Ofcom have actually done is clarify a definition. They have not changed the words of GC 9.6. As they have only clarified a definition then the definition must apply to all contracts as it cannot be a legally correct position that two contracts subject to the same regulation with exactly the same wording (GC 9.6) can have two different meanings.








Without Prejudice
The price rise applied to my V58 T-Mobile – which was taken out before 30th October 2012, is clearly of Material Detriment to me. In March 2013 T-Mobile were most forceful* in insisting that the Annual RPI applied to my account of 3.3% related to March 2013 RPI published in April 2013, whereas now you are applying the February 2014 ANNUAL RPI rate to the same contract. Clearly EE are not allowed to apply a 12 Month inflation rate to an 11 Month period as this would effectively be applying an RPI rate higher than the actual RPI rate in that period, and is therefore to my Material detriment.


*T-Mobile Defence to a CISAS case regarding the wrong months RPI being applied:

COMMUNICATIONS & INTERNET SERVICES ADJUDICATION SCHEME

REFERENCE: 212132298


BETWEEN


MR XXXXXXXX Claimant
and
EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE LIMITED
trading as T-Mobile Respondent



…………
19 As the Written Notice was issued in the month of April 2013 then the relevant month’s RPI figure for the purposes of Clause 7.2.3.3 of the Agreement is the RPI figure as published by the Office of National Statistics (“ONS”) representing March 2013; being the month before the month in which the Written Notice was issued. The March RPI figure, published by the ONS Statistics was 3.3%. By way of the Monthly Statistical Bulletin (“the Bulletin”) published by the ONS the following is stated:-

The RPI 12-month rate for March [2013] stood at 3.3%

The Bulletin is a lengthy document so has not annexed to this Defence but can be made available to CISAS upon request. …………

The Respondent believes that the facts stated in this form are true. I am duly authorised by the Respondent to sign this statement.

Dated the 03 July 2013

Rue Kandi

Legal Executive
For and on behalf of the Respondent whose address for service is at:
Everything Everywhere Limited
Hatfield Business Park
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
AL10 9BW.




I look forward to receiving my PAC (penalty free) with immediate effect. Should EE not consider this to be an appropriate action then please clearly articulate why this is not the case with reference to each of the points above. Any response which fails to address the specific points above would not be acceptable to me and will be used as evidence of EE’s lack of duty of care and poor customer service in any subsequent CISAS claim.

muse213

Have sent them my account number and phone number when they contacted me, they haven't replied yet, and its nearly coming up to another week. Not great customer service at all

corsaman2002

Hello,


I sent the e-mail template is post #99 and I have had a response from EE.


I am not too sure what to do next. The response is below.




Dear Mr Phillips,





I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price Increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation.





We are obliged, as are all UK operators, to abide by General Condition 9.6 of the Ofcom. This condition sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer, which is to provide 30 days' notice and allow a customer to end their agreement free of charge. When the changes are not of material detriment, the customer does not have the right to end their agreement. In the case of this price increase, the change is not of material detriment to customers.





"The increase is in line with the Terms and Conditions of your contract specifically clause 15.1). As the increase is less than RPI should you wish to close the account early in accordance with clause 4.3.1 you would be subject to an early termination fee"





Yours sincerely





Executive Office,EE


NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER


This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s). If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose.





We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you.





EE Limited


Registered in England and Wales


Company Registered Number: 02382161


Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW

RandomCurve

corsaman2002 wrote: »

Hello,


I sent the e-mail template is post #99 and I have had a response from EE.


I am not too sure what to do next. The response is below.




Dear Mr Phillips,





I am sorry you are unhappy with the recent Price Increase. As a company we are committed to offering the best value for service which is why we have kept the increase to a minimum. The increase is a result of the rising costs to our business and is in line with the Retail Price Index (RPI), which is a measure of inflation.





We are obliged, as are all UK operators, to abide by General Condition 9.6 of the Ofcom. This condition sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer, which is to provide 30 days' notice and allow a customer to end their agreement free of charge. When the changes are not of material detriment, the customer does not have the right to end their agreement. In the case of this price increase, the change is not of material detriment to customers.





"The increase is in line with the Terms and Conditions of your contract specifically clause 15.1).As the increase is less than RPI should you wish to close the account early in accordance with clause 4.3.1 you would be subject to an early termination fee"





Yours sincerely





Executive Office,EE


NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER


This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s).If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose.





We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you.





EE Limited


Registered in England and Wales


Company Registered Number: 02382161


Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW

See my post #163 - seems EE have combined tactic 1 and tactic 2.


I will put a response up on the forum by Tuesday 22nd.


The good thing about their response is that they have ignored CPI and have not commented on changing the T&C after 23rd January - they are obviously worried and trying to ignore that part of the original email - I think we are onto a winner - make sure you tell everyone you know to send the original email.:)

Savedotmoney

Thanks for your help RandomCurve, I've just sent my first email off so will watch this thread like a hawk and keep it updated with my progress!

Martinmal1

RandomCurve wrote: »

Perfect - Jan 213 contract could turn out to be cheapest phone ever!!!

Best part was it was sorted through the Exec office after Orange had messed me around for a month over a faulty phone. Let's see what the Exec office say this time (most likely wont get a response they will be flooded with Email)

Thanks for the original letter will send v2 off next friday if no response