Plenty of money for houses....but not for nurses

J_i_m

I've been an employee of the NHS for over eight years now and as a result I am at the top of my pay band (band 2).

The top of the scale is essentially "standard" pay for my role and I've been effectively underpaid in salary terms for the proceeding eight years.

If my salary is to increase now, I'll have to find a higher paid job (fair enough). I am certainly not set to get annual pay rises each and every year if I stay where I am.

In this time, I've often carried out tasks that would normally be assigned to an employee on band 5 or 6 (nothing medical I might add).

I've worked very had to ensure that not only are the basic and essential care standards are met, but the whole care environment is improved. This is extremely challenging in the current political climate and the red tape and bureaucracy has actually taken a toll on my personal health.

I've never received a penny extra for doing so nor had any career progression incentive to do it (outside of the management trying to chivy me into routes unsuitable for me).

A lot of NHS staff are trying to do a good job in very difficult circumstances which is not easy when the budgets are being continuously cut, the resources restricted, the staffing levels deliberately reduced and the workload exponentially increased.

It's very difficult maintaining care standards (let alone improving them) when you are basically put upon in ever larger ways.

It's also very demoralising when you're subject to abuse and physical assault from patients whom you are trying to care for.

I think people very often forget that nurses and care assistants are people the same as anyone else. But hey! Let's continue to make the job harder and reward lower shall we?

The more that society pushes up the demands on the NHS whilst simultaousely impeeding the conditions for it's staff then the more we risk there not being an NHS in the future, and then what will happen?

And you can apply this argument to many other public services too.

lostinrates

J_i_m wrote: »

And you can apply this argument to many other public services too.

And indeed private services too, including health care, where profit MIST be shown as well as customer satisfaction met.

grizzly1911

lostinrates wrote: »

And indeed private services too, including health care, where profit MIST be shown as well as customer satisfaction met.

Is profit mist how they conceal them?;)

lostinrates

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Is profit mist how they conceal them?;)

Lol, no...that's the fog over cayman I guess. (Note to readers who know where my DH works, this is strictly a joke and not based in fact at all)

Lirism, obviously should have read 'MUST'

Backbiter

I've been an employee of the NHS for over eight years now and as a result I am at the top of my pay band (band 2).

The top of the scale is essentially "standard" pay for my role and I've been effectively underpaid in salary terms for the proceeding eight years.

If my salary is to increase now, I'll have to find a higher paid job (fair enough). I am certainly not set to get annual pay rises each and every year if I stay where I am.

This point from j i m's post above needs to be reiterated over and over. The 'incremental rises' in the NHS and other professions like teaching are effectively reversing the pay-cut staff have when they join the profession. They aren't paid the proper rate for the job for the first few years, however hard they work.

And they do not get rises EVERY year, as the press seem to state at every opportunity. Once you've reached the top of the scale (after six years), there are no more 'automatic pay rises' based on experience. So for the next 40 years, you will not get them.
If the Government wants to scrap these 'increments', they should pay the true rate for the job from day one, not withhold it for the first six years.

lostinrates

Backbiter wrote: »

This point from j i m's post above needs to be reiterated over and over. The 'incremental rises' in the NHS and other professions like teaching are effectively reversing the pay-cut staff have when they join the profession. They aren't paid the proper rate for the job for the first few years, however hard they work.

.

Can you explain this in more depth, perhaps with some examples?

I'm not sure for example what you mean by pay cut when 'they join the profession'. Are they earning more on a training/ student grade? Or is this for people coming from other careers?

This is genuinely helpful in trying to understand the situation, so thanks in advance

Backbiter

lostinrates wrote: »

Can you explain this in more depth, perhaps with some examples?
http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/444941/Pay_Scales_2012_Final270312.pdf
I'm not sure for example what you mean by pay cut when 'they join the profession'. Are they earning more on a training/ student grade? Or is this for people coming from other careers?

This is genuinely helpful in trying to understand the situation, so thanks in advance

Here's what I mean:

A Band 5 nurse starts on £21k.
http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/444941/Pay_Scales_2012_Final270312.pdf

After 8 years, the pay has gone up in small increments to a maximum of £27k. Where it stays. For the next 40 years until retirement.

Which means that, really, the true rate for the nurse is 27k. The reduction in pay for the first 8 years is simply a way of underpaying inexperienced nurses. They should get the true rate for the job from day one.

Loughton_Monkey

Backbiter wrote: »

.......Which means that, really, the true rate for the nurse is 27k. The reduction in pay for the first 8 years is simply a way of underpaying inexperienced nurses. They should get the true rate for the job from day one.

Not sure I agree with that. If you're talking about a hod carrier or dumper driver on a building site, then that would be true.

In a job like nursing, however, they cannot possibly teach you everything at nursing school, and more relevant, they cannot give you the experience. I do not know of any blue/white collar job where there is no learning/experience curve.

When I have an operation, the surgeon will leave a nurse to clean the incision area, sew me up, and apply dressings..... I would much prefer a nurse of 4 or 5 years standing than one who came out of nursing school yesterday!

The problem I see is (as already discussed) the concept of allowing progression through the grades truly in accordance with performance, rather than 'with the milk'.

lostinrates

Backbiter wrote: »

Here's what I mean:

A Band 5 nurse starts on £21k.
http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/444941/Pay_Scales_2012_Final270312.pdf

After 8 years, the pay has gone up in small increments to a maximum of £27k. Where it stays. For the next 40 years until retirement.

Which means that, really, the true rate for the nurse is 27k. The reduction in pay for the first 8 years is simply a way of underpaying inexperienced nurses. They should get the true rate for the job from day one.

is experience worth so little?

Backbiter

In response to both the above:

You've both just stated that experienced nurses should be paid more than inexperienced ones because their experience matters.

Here's a novel idea: let's devise a pay system whereby nurses and teachers get paid more as they acquire valuable experience.

It might look something like the system the Government want to abolish.