can we avoid care home charges

Torry_Quine

spaniel_dog wrote: »

Oh dear what a thread I started, I wonder if some of the respondents realize I can read all the comments including the not very nice insinuations and unfounded accusations. Although I shouldn't need to I would like to clarify a some of the misunderstandings that have caused some to call me 'smug' 'self satisfied' 'contemplating fraud' and 'not telling the truth'

My original question was asking if sold property now giving funds to children then later need to go into care would we have avoided charges or would the children be required to pay, never said 'wanted to get out paying'
There was nowhere in that question suggesting anything but it was genuine inquiry around the rules of property being gifted and would it be seen as 'avoiding charges' if I had not made myself very clear would have explained at any request

Common sense tells me to ignore some of these posts but for my own piece mind would like to set the record straight, it may be easier if I start at beginning

Why did I ask the question:

having been diagnosed with debilitating illness, have to consider adapting the house we live or to move into suitable ground floor accommodation,
either option will require funds, option 1: sell house, use funds to obtain and adapt other property, option 2; raise funds to adapt this house, to raise funds would have to go down the Equity Release route. Use excess funds to make gift to our children.

My question, I hoped would help us decide which route is more feasible, not knowing how these things work I did not know if giving funds away at this point would have effect in the future

Hiding money, or contemplating fraud was never mentioned by me at any time

Minimum wage did not come into force until 1999 a fantastic £3.60, I had a pay rise, my NHS working career started 1973 as Domestic, then Clerk before becoming Auxiliary Nurse (now HCA) so would not say I earned great deal to accumulate good pension.

For a span of 2 years my sister and myself looked after our parents in their own home, although worked all their lives was only eligible for few hrs home help a week because of my Dads miners pensions they were few pounds over the 'means test'
My sister who was night worker was the carer during the day, I who worked a full time day job was the carer evenings and on call at night, we did that until last few months of Mums life so I think we saved the system quite a bit in money. The home Mum went into was not bad at all lovely staff and good facilities

Tax Allowance: I dont get any allowances on my pension yet until I reach 65 birthday, look forward to those extra tax free funds,
I took pension at 60 reduced work to part time all allowances allocated to employment, still is, when sudden illness took over went off sick in zero pay until termination sorted

Really happy you can laugh at double pension as manager you earned a lot more than me but the reduced stamp at that time was promoted by government bodies, I was working part time then raising children, later in life when we found out it had been gross mistake government offered us to buy back the years, I could not afford the lump sum required, all those years paying the small stamp may be not large amount but it was many years of money I gave the government I lost can never get back

Council Funding: Government devolved budgets to local councils who have full autonomy to run or close service and spend budget as they want, our council is well known for wasting money on useless buildings while they reduce spending on vital services

Irrespective of care costs to our council run homes the majority of care homes in this area are run buy the private sector, the council ones have been shut down to pay the 4 million new Civic Center. (recently TV documentary covered the story)
My socialism views find Privatization of vital services an abomination, yes I would resist paying into the fat cats pockets if I possibly can.

Have looked at some of the lovely apartment homes being built around the City one of the options I mentioned we are looking at but when you consider we moved into this house very many years ago, it was almost derelict, my husband and myself using own skill and muscle renovated over 10 years into the lovely home we have now, the only problem we didnt give enough though to the practicalities of elderly or infirm
We could adapt some rooms but need funds for that only choice would be equity release which many tell us we should not do

I dont seen why I should discuss my personal circumstances in this forum but after reading so many unfair unjustified and pathetic comments I have had no choice

I'm sorry that you aren't in good health, I know how hard that it is to have to totally review your life.:(

The bolded part is because you have a tax free allowance whatever your age so can't understand what you're saying here at all.

You may not have meant it but you did seem to be saying that you wanted to preserve your inheritance and that means not paying if care needed.

As you were over 60 when you had to stop work then it's reasonable to think that you would have stopped relatively soon anyway.

paying the reduced stamp was your decision but when young how many of us don't think of long term consequences!

spaniel_dog

Mojisola wrote: »

If that's what you wanted to know, why did you ask about avoiding care home charges?

the question is asking would it be deemed as avoiding charges

thorsoak

spaniel_dog wrote: »

the question is asking would it be deemed as avoiding charges

And the answer was given to you - and the answer was YES it would be deemed as avoiding charges. And then you started on the usual rant........

I don't like the idea of paying for my care any more than anyone else - but as a socialist, I agree with the philosphy of the welfare state as it was envisaged "to each according to their needs, from each according to their means" - and as I have some means (much the same as yours, I imagine) - I recognise that I'm going to have to pay - and my children tell me that they have already got their inheritance from myself and my late OH - the memories and love that we've bestowed on them.

I'm sure that your children will think the same.

spaniel_dog

Torry_Quine wrote: »

I'm sorry that you aren't in good health, I know how hard that it is to have to totally review your life.:(

The bolded part is because you have a tax free allowance whatever your age so can't understand what you're saying here at all.

You may not have meant it but you did seem to be saying that you wanted to preserve your inheritance and that means not paying if care needed.

As you were over 60 when you had to stop work then it's reasonable to think that you would have stopped relatively soon anyway.

paying the reduced stamp was your decision but when young how many of us don't think of long term consequences!

I dont have to keep going over it, suggest you talk to expert as i did, the tax free allowance can only be attached to one form income and as I still show as employed (irrespective of pay) that allowance attached to NHS so pension is unearned income
while only on low pay doing few hours week being told by the government have chance to pay less in stoppages was like a bonus we was not advised of consequences, if compare with analogy today would compare to PPI except we couldnt claim back
No intended to work up to and possibly beyond 65 I did enjoy my job as carer

Errata

being told by the government have chance to pay less in stoppages was like a bonus we was not advised of consequences

Those who chose to pay the maried womans stamp were most certainly advised by the government of the consequences, but some have conveniently forgotten what they were advised.

somethingcorporate

You obviously don't understand the tax free allowance. Everyone has one regardless of how many income streams they have. You should be getting almost £10k tax-free a year (from employment/pension/interest on savings etc).

Just sounds like you didn't get your own way and are now having a rant. Your story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese! How much tax do you think you've really contributed compared to what you have benefited from your entire career if all you've earned is a low salary? You've almost certainly cost more than you have contributed.

spaniel_dog

somethingcorporate wrote: »

You obviously don't understand the tax free allowance. Everyone has one regardless of how many income streams they have. You should be getting almost £10k tax-free a year (from employment/pension/interest on savings etc).

Just sounds like you didn't get your own way and are now having a rant. Your story has more holes in it than Swiss cheese! How much tax do you think you've really contributed compared to what you have benefited from your entire career if all you've earned is a low salary? You've almost certainly cost more than you have contributed.

I probably need to contact tax office if they have given me wrong info I will do a cut/paste from your comment seeing as you know so much
my rant as you call it is trying to answer in order all the point others have raised, yes working in health service long hours for low pay probably didn't contribute much to society, its remarks like that make those of us in nursing want to pack all in

jellyhead

Could you just do equity release for the amount needed to adapt your current home?

If not, have you looked at sheltered housing type places? My Gran lived in sheltered housing for 20 years and she really enjoyed it. She spent her final year in hospital and a care home. She couldn't fund it herself, but it wasn't as grim as some have mentioned. It was actually very nice, and she was lucky to be allocated a place within 2-3 miles of most of her regular visiting family. The first place they were talking about was too far for me to cycle, but she wouldn't have had any choice. She wasn't able to leave the hospital on the expected day, so that place went to somebody else and she was lucky to get a more local place when she was ready to leave hospital.

Grandad was able to visit sometimes while he was in his final months of cancer - again he wouldn't have been able to manage the journey if it hadn't been local. He died a few weeks after she did and we were so lucky that she had so many visitors in her final weeks.

Of course we'd all have moved heaven and earth to try to find a local place for her between us if it had come to it, but we couldn't have afforded to do that for more than a few months.

Wouldn't you like to have the choice to be in the same home or local to your husband, or close to your children?

ognum

spaniel_dog wrote: »

I probably need to contact tax office if they have given me wrong info I will do a cut/paste from your comment seeing as you know so much
my rant as you call it is trying to answer in order all the point others have raised, yes working in health service long hours for low pay probably didn't contribute much to society, its remarks like that make those of us in nursing want to pack all in

Oh dear!

Yet again you have chosen take part of a comment and deliberately interpret it incorrectly. Somethingcorporate did not in any way suggest that you had not contributed by your work they suggest the amount of tax you paid was unlikely to have been more than you used.

Of course as a care assistant you work was useful and appreciated but I'm not really sure why you don't take notice of the key points that posters are making to you rather than deflecting them with these side comments.

mountainofdebt

spaniel_dog wrote: »

I probably need to contact tax office if they have given me wrong info I will do a cut/paste from your comment seeing as you know so much

Doesn't matter how old or poor you are, manners cost nothing.