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can we avoid care home charges

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  • toontron
    toontron Posts: 2,116 Forumite
    I remember years ago that my grandparents signed their house over to my mum to avoid capital gains or something. My granda died of a heart attack and a few years later I believe my gran started to go senile and needed ti go into a care home. As I recall their was a meeting, my father informed the hospital staff that my nan didnt own her home, and her care was then free. I have a feeling that this was at a time when if you signed your home over and outlived the agreement by seven years, no inheritance tax was paid, this was a while ago and I think that as others have stated, this is no longer possible.
    January GC: £64.81/£80.00
    February GC: £24.60£80.00
  • Torry_Quine
    Torry_Quine Posts: 18,884 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    toontron wrote: »
    I remember years ago that my grandparents signed their house over to my mum to avoid capital gains or something. My granda died of a heart attack and a few years later I believe my gran started to go senile and needed ti go into a care home. As I recall their was a meeting, my father informed the hospital staff that my nan didnt own her home, and her care was then free. I have a feeling that this was at a time when if you signed your home over and outlived the agreement by seven years, no inheritance tax was paid, this was a while ago and I think that as others have stated, this is no longer possible.


    You're understandably confusing two different but related things.

    It's still the case that if you die before seven years then any gift is still counted for inheritance tax purposes.

    However there is no time limit as to whether a home is still counted for care needs. Obviously the longer the time period the harder it is to prove that the home was given away to excape care fees but also considered is the health of the person and whether it was reasonable at the time of transfer that they would require care.
    Lost my soulmate so life is empty.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
  • toontron
    toontron Posts: 2,116 Forumite
    You're understandably confusing two different but related things.

    It's still the case that if you die before seven years then any gift is still counted for inheritance tax purposes.

    However there is no time limit as to whether a home is still counted for care needs. Obviously the longer the time period the harder it is to prove that the home was given away to excape care fees but also considered is the health of the person and whether it was reasonable at the time of transfer that they would require care.

    I wouldn't argue with you at all, I was a teen with better things on my mind when the original dealings went on and I took very little notice at the time, thinking back now, and it isnt something i have thought about for years, i have a feeling that the care home fee dodging didnt even come in to it, i think it was done purely to avoid inheritence tax. I suppose it working, both of my parents have now passed away, and the house is now mine.
    January GC: £64.81/£80.00
    February GC: £24.60£80.00
  • No I didn't support the poll tax and had no problem with people campaigning against it but rioting is for me never an acceptable way to behave. here in Scotland it started a year early.



    That's not correct though. Whatever the source of income everyone has a tax-free allowance.

    it was called riots by the media but was protests marches, blocking entry into council office and such our local group camped on Town Hall steps until the police bodily moved us, as for tax my allowance is another story not for open conversation
  • Torry_Quine
    Torry_Quine Posts: 18,884 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    it was called riots by the media but was protests marches, blocking entry into council office and such our local group camped on Town Hall steps until the police bodily moved us, as for tax my allowance is another story not for open conversation

    Just because the media called it riots doesn't mean you have to though and some people did actually riot! If you did just march that's fine but not stopping people going about their legal business.

    You don't have to say anything you don't want about your tax allowance obviously but you do have one just like the rest of us. ;)
    Lost my soulmate so life is empty.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    edited 30 September 2013 at 12:55AM
    I worked in the NHS care assistant the wage was minimum .......

    Nope, it's much more than minimum wage working as HCA in the NHS, I know as several of my family work in the NHS, my mum is an HCA currently (28 years service) and her minimum pay level is well above the minimum wage of £6.19 p.hr, so that's a big fib and I think you know that.

    Her circumstances are very similar to yours and she doesn't intend to circumvent the rules if/when the time comes.

    The way NI contributions work: you pay in while you work, that money doesn't get saved up for you. It pays the state pensions and other welfare benefits for those claiming now. Including care home costs for those unable to afford it. What you are thinking of doing, in effect, is ask those paying NI & tax when you may need care to fund that because you gave the assets away to your children [ie. hiding your money]. It is tantamount to fraud. I bet you dislike tax fraud, tax havens for the rich and benefit fraud but you would be embarking on the same thing...

    Your right to reside and live under the UK laws and rules implies implicit consent to this system. Why should you be different? Elderly care costs money, it always has, if you have enough money (including the assets tied up in your home) then pay some/all.
  • Person_one
    Person_one Posts: 28,884 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 30 September 2013 at 1:09AM
    joolzred wrote: »
    Nope, it's much more than minimum wage working as HCA in the NHS, I know as several of my family work in the NHS, my mum is an HCA currently (28 years service) and her minimum pay level is well above the minimum wage of £6.19 p.hr, so that's a big fib and I think you know that.

    As an aside, there are plenty of NHS HCAs working for NMW. They are the ones who are newest to the job, you don't start on the bottom rung of band 2 until you are 'trained' (:rotfl:) and can be on minimum wage for years waiting for this to happen.

    There are a significant number of holes in the OP's narrative, but I wouldn't want you to go around accusing other people of lying about this!
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    edited 30 September 2013 at 1:18AM
    Person_one wrote: »
    As an aside, there are plenty of NHS HCAs working for NMW. They are the ones who are newest to the job, you don't start on the bottom rung of band 2 until you are 'trained' (:rotfl:) and can be on minimum wage for years waiting for this to happen.

    There are a significant number of holes in the OP's narrative, but I wouldn't want you to go around accusing other people of lying about this!

    But the OP has retired and has an NHS pension so I would guess she is the same kind of age as my dear mama - who didn't do extra NVQ training - which is a basic wage of well over £8 per hr. We live in a low unqualified wage area (south west England) so it's seen as a good wage here!

    What's NMW? near minimum wage? That's a new acronym on me, learn something new everyday! :)
  • Slowhand
    Slowhand Posts: 1,073 Forumite
    National Minimum Wage
  • seven-day-weekend
    seven-day-weekend Posts: 36,755 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 30 September 2013 at 2:06AM
    not really but because private pension pay tax on all of it

    It is an Occupational Pension, not private, and you would not pay tax on it if your total income from all sources including that Pension was less than your Personal Tax Allowance, so you obviously do not have simply the 'small' pension you mentioned.

    My husband pays tax on his Teachers' pension because his total income is more than his Personal Tax Allowance, not because it is an Occupational Pension. When I receive my Local Government Pension next year I will not pay tax, because that and my State Pension combined fall within my Personal Tax Allowance.


    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/personal-allow.htm

    There are three levels of Personal Allowance
    Personal Allowance
    2013-14 tax year

    Born after 5 April 1948
    £9,440


    Born between 6 April 1938 and 5 April 1948
    £10,500

    Born before 6 April 1938
    £10,660


    Anyway, in answer to your original question, yes, it will almost certainty be looked upon as deprivation of assets, especially if one or both of you are already experiencing ill-health.

    Hope this helps.
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
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