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can we avoid care home charges

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  • It is a good point that LEJC raises about being in the same Home.

    If you both need care, it would be awful to be split up, just because you have chosen not to pay. :(

    Give yourself the choice, you might be glad you did one day.
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • geoffky
    geoffky Posts: 6,835 Forumite
    No wonder thatcher said there is no such thing as society...With people like this around there soon will not be....Shameless...
    It is nice to see the value of your house going up'' Why ?
    Unless you are planning to sell up and not live anywhere, I can;t see the advantage.
    If you are planning to upsize the new house will cost more.
    If you are planning to downsize your new house will cost more than it should
    If you are trying to buy your first house its almost impossible.
  • my age irrelevant, no I dont receive state pension I didnt qualify because I only paid what they called 'married womans stamp' I took out private pension very early in my working life, thankfully I have never needed to call on the state for any provision, so have taken nothing out but paid plenty in. I agree with paying for better care in the private sector if thats your choice but that should not be the case all care should be that better quality and only need to pay for the extras.

    How did you 'pay plenty in'? You only paid the minimum NI that you could get away with! The reason for paying the so-called 'married women's stamp' was to allow you to pay less therefore have money in your hand. I paid full NI contributions throughout the same time-scale that you describe. You say 51 years. DH and I have a century in the workplace between us, mostly doing responsible if not particularly well-paid jobs. I can't claim to 'have had nothing out of it'. Anyone who had recourse to the NHS, had children educated by the state, was paid a student grant, did get something out of it. The main thing, though, was that it was to pay for others at the time - the sick, the unemployed, the retired. Not a savings pot for the future!
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
  • ...and by the way, I was in fairly senior positions for the latter years of my time in the NHS. I do recall female staff members keeping their hours just below full-time so that they wouldn't have to join the pension scheme. I also recall being laughed at many's the time by those who knew I was paying full NI and paying into the NHS pension scheme. I get full state pension and also pensions based on previous employment. They don't, but it's too late for them to remedy the situation. Who's laughing now?
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
  • FatVonD
    FatVonD Posts: 5,315 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker I've been Money Tipped!
    edited 30 September 2013 at 4:41PM
    I'm no expert on care homes and sheltered housing (and the differences between) but I'm sure other people are and I'd be really interested in hearing it as it's something that will affect me too at some point.

    Have you considered, OP, selling your home and buying a flat in a sheltered housing project? I googled the one my son works at the other day and one of the apartments came up on rightmove. I think you bought 75% of the flat and then paid a fee on top of that (wasn't paying too much attention but I think they mentioned that the fee was at the amount that would be paid by the local authority.) It wouldn't protect ALL your assets but presumably (unless your needs exceeded the care that could be given at that location I guess) at least the cost of the apartment would outlive you both?

    I'm sure there must be a reason this wouldn't work and I'm equally sure someone will be along to tell me!
    Make £25 a day in April £0/£750 (March £584, February £602, January £883.66)

    December £361.54, November £322.28, October £288.52, September £374.30, August £223.95, July £71.45, June £251.22, May£119.33, April £236.24, March £106.74, Feb £40.99, Jan £98.54) Total for 2017 - £2,495.10
  • LEJC
    LEJC Posts: 9,618 Forumite
    edited 30 September 2013 at 5:04PM
    I have not had any input with sheltered housing projects but my understanding is that they do indeed work very well for those who want to continue in their own home ....ie in the same way as a in house care package would work.
    I think you still face the situation if nursing home care is required that sheltered accomodation would not be able to provide this necessarily...
    At this point its my undestanding that if you do not have suffient savings to fund your care outright you do still fall into the owner of a property senario which will probably mean disposal of the asset at some point and as its a bit of a niche market its not always something that holds its value as well as a conventional house....and indeed you cant sell to a FTB or growing family!!!!

    The problem with growing old is you never know what the future brings...and its incredibly difficult to make predictions....and also the rate at which you will move from needing minimal help,to more help and then residential care is not the same.it would be much easier to control and plan if it were,but rates of deterioration are different person to person.
    Some of us will need care....some wont...
    The point I tried to make earlier was that those who are lucky enough to have savings or assets have a much better overall choice of care than those people without funds...its not about giving inheritance,although that is nice if you can,but its more about ending your days the way you want to and in the surroundings that you choose rather than "wherever the space may be".

    its also worth remembering that there are limits and caps on your savings so its not as if everything is going to be lost in your care provision if you self fund...once your savings/assets fall below £23,000 you will only need to contribute a portion to your costs and these are extended to fully funded once savings reach £14,000
    frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!

    2017 toiletries challenge 179 out 145 in ...£18.64 spend
  • tooldle
    tooldle Posts: 1,633 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I looked at a similar place for my parents. I think it is called a close care arrangement. You can either buy or rent the apartment, depending on the scheme. Care services are on site and are charged by the half hour or hour, according to the needs of each resident.
    The scheme I looked at had a small shop onsite, as well as a coffe shop /restaurant. Invaluable I thought for my mum, with dementia. The shop staff would remind her that she had already bought an item, rather than let her buy 20 separate pints of milk over the course of a day. Sadly it turned out that residential care was more appropriate. It was a great scheme, and we'll worth considering for the future. To buy an apartment, the potential purchaser had to demonstrate a need for care, so it might not be appropriate for the OP at the moment.
  • Oh dear what a thread I started, I wonder if some of the respondents realize I can read all the comments including the not very nice insinuations and unfounded accusations. Although I shouldn't need to I would like to clarify a some of the misunderstandings that have caused some to call me 'smug' 'self satisfied' 'contemplating fraud' and 'not telling the truth'

    My original question was asking if sold property now giving funds to children then later need to go into care would we have avoided charges or would the children be required to pay, never said 'wanted to get out paying'
    There was nowhere in that question suggesting anything but it was genuine inquiry around the rules of property being gifted and would it be seen as 'avoiding charges' if I had not made myself very clear would have explained at any request

    Common sense tells me to ignore some of these posts but for my own piece mind would like to set the record straight, it may be easier if I start at beginning

    Why did I ask the question:

    having been diagnosed with debilitating illness, have to consider adapting the house we live or to move into suitable ground floor accommodation,
    either option will require funds, option 1: sell house, use funds to obtain and adapt other property, option 2; raise funds to adapt this house, to raise funds would have to go down the Equity Release route. Use excess funds to make gift to our children.

    My question, I hoped would help us decide which route is more feasible, not knowing how these things work I did not know if giving funds away at this point would have effect in the future

    Hiding money, or contemplating fraud was never mentioned by me at any time

    Minimum wage did not come into force until 1999 a fantastic £3.60, I had a pay rise, my NHS working career started 1973 as Domestic, then Clerk before becoming Auxiliary Nurse (now HCA) so would not say I earned great deal to accumulate good pension.

    For a span of 2 years my sister and myself looked after our parents in their own home, although worked all their lives was only eligible for few hrs home help a week because of my Dads miners pensions they were few pounds over the 'means test'
    My sister who was night worker was the carer during the day, I who worked a full time day job was the carer evenings and on call at night, we did that until last few months of Mums life so I think we saved the system quite a bit in money. The home Mum went into was not bad at all lovely staff and good facilities

    Tax Allowance: I dont get any allowances on my pension yet until I reach 65 birthday, look forward to those extra tax free funds,
    I took pension at 60 reduced work to part time all allowances allocated to employment, still is, when sudden illness took over went off sick in zero pay until termination sorted

    Really happy you can laugh at double pension as manager you earned a lot more than me but the reduced stamp at that time was promoted by government bodies, I was working part time then raising children, later in life when we found out it had been gross mistake government offered us to buy back the years, I could not afford the lump sum required, all those years paying the small stamp may be not large amount but it was many years of money I gave the government I lost can never get back

    Council Funding: Government devolved budgets to local councils who have full autonomy to run or close service and spend budget as they want, our council is well known for wasting money on useless buildings while they reduce spending on vital services

    Irrespective of care costs to our council run homes the majority of care homes in this area are run buy the private sector, the council ones have been shut down to pay the 4 million new Civic Center. (recently TV documentary covered the story)
    My socialism views find Privatization of vital services an abomination, yes I would resist paying into the fat cats pockets if I possibly can.

    Have looked at some of the lovely apartment homes being built around the City one of the options I mentioned we are looking at but when you consider we moved into this house very many years ago, it was almost derelict, my husband and myself using own skill and muscle renovated over 10 years into the lovely home we have now, the only problem we didnt give enough though to the practicalities of elderly or infirm
    We could adapt some rooms but need funds for that only choice would be equity release which many tell us we should not do

    I dont seen why I should discuss my personal circumstances in this forum but after reading so many unfair unjustified and pathetic comments I have had no choice
  • thorsoak
    thorsoak Posts: 7,166 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I think that the heading of your original post caused hackles to rise - CAN WE AVOID CARE HOME FEES - it immediately makes one think that you were looking for loopholes.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,571 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Why did I ask the question:

    having been diagnosed with debilitating illness, have to consider adapting the house we live or to move into suitable ground floor accommodation, either option will require funds,
    option 1: sell house, use funds to obtain and adapt other property,
    option 2; raise funds to adapt this house, to raise funds would have to go down the Equity Release route. Use excess funds to make gift to our children.
    if we sold house and gave the funds to our children now then in 1-2 years needed to go into care home would we have avoided the care home charges that would accrued from the assets we no longer have or would the children be required to pay from the financial gift

    If that's what you wanted to know, why did you ask about avoiding care home charges?
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