can we avoid care home charges

Person_one

margaretclare

spaniel_dog wrote: »

if we sold house and gave the funds to our children now then in 1-2 years needed to go into care home would we have avoided the care home charges that would accrued from the assets we no longer have or would the children be required to pay from the financial gift

This was the start of this now fairly lengthy thread. I go back to the beginning because, OP, you've been dismissive and condemnatory of all the responses. Reading this with an open mind, just how do you suppose people should have responded?

Over the years, we see many threads with a similar beginning. They may possibly start with the words how can we 'protect' our inheritance, or save it, or similar. The inference is that there is some greedy goblin kingdom out there whose aim is to snatch everything you possess and thrust it into its insatiable maw, for what purpose one can only imagine.

It's a fact which you haven't considered, although others have touched on it: most older people do NOT require full-time permanent residential care at the end of their lives. Most continue on, even with help - paid or otherwise - coming into their homes to enable them to continue a normal or near-normal life. Most of us find we can't do the things we used to do with ease and have to pay people to do them for us. Window-cleaning, gardening are obvious examples. Help with housework. TV ads like the Ronnie Corbett one for meals provided illustrate another need.

People do give a lot of help and useful suggestions, but the one thing which is guaranteed to put everyone's backs up is the idea that you have the means to pay for services but that you want them for free. This means that we all have to pay for what you hope to get for nothing, having diverted your resources elsewhere. This was the implication in post # 1.

Mojisola

margaretclare wrote: »

It's a fact which you haven't considered, although others have touched on it: most older people do NOT require full-time permanent residential care at the end of their lives. Most continue on, even with help - paid or otherwise - coming into their homes to enable them to continue a normal or near-normal life.

And if one of a couple does need residential care, the value of the house is disregarded if the other partner continues to live in it.

And if the last survivor ends up in care, the average stay is about two years. While some people will live for much longer in care, most don't.

If you add up all the factors, the chance of ending up paying for care are quite small.

On the other hand, we've had threads started by people whose parents signed over their houses and left their children facing an IHT bill (because it was a gift with reservation) and CGT when the parents died.

And there have been other threads by parents who signed over their house and their children ended up bankrupt/divorcing/needing to claim means-tested benefits which resulted in the parents having to leave their house so that it could be sold.

margaretclare

securityguy wrote: »

Where do people get this sort of nonsense from? And why do they then parade their ignorance around, too?

I don't know, but it's not true.

DH and I each have retirement income from more than one source. The OP says that 'the personal allowance can only be attached to one income'. No. What happens is that all the sources of income are added together and the personal allowance is set against the total.

seven-day-weekend

margaretclare wrote: »

I don't know, but it's not true.

DH and I each have retirement income from more than one source. The OP says that 'the personal allowance can only be attached to one income'. No. What happens is that all the sources of income are added together and the personal allowance is set against the total.

This is true, although the amount of tax paid may be deducted from one source. For example, if you have a State Pension and an Occupational Pension, the two amounts are added together to calculate how much tax is owed, but that amount is then deducted from the Occupational Pension. It doesn't mean that the Occupational Pension is classed as 'unearned income', nor that you pay more tax than you would otherwise, just that the amount owed is taken from one income rather than several.

For example, my husband has a Teachers' pension and claims a small amount of Incapacity Benefit, which is a taxable Benefit. His two sources of income are added together to calculate the amount of tax owing, but then that amount is taken from the Occupational Pension, rather than taking one amount off the Pension and a smaller amount from the Benefit.

I think this is where the OP is getting muddled.

spaniel_dog

This as been an education in how easy folk can see what they want to see in a situation putting their own twist and coming up with 5. Many of you like to think you know what my financial situation is, well unless you have rummaged through my paperwork, you dont. I am not ignorant as SG says but would suggest it appears he makes habit of not getting full story first

If there was facility to attached a scanned document I could show you the correspondence from HMRC 'your employer and pensions agency had applied the same code giving tax-free allowances, as this allowance cant be used twice you have made underpayment during the tax year'.
so although I had gone into zero pay the employer used the code so pension is taxed without allowance, then I got slammed with large tax bill which they added to the monthly tax deducted, 1/3 my pension currently goes in tax

Earlier posting said I was trying to defend myself, I say I have nothing to defend, the thought we had about gifting the children now at this time in their life they need it, was long before it dawned on us it may cause problem later on, hence posting the question in the first place, the question wasnt finding a way of avoiding, care home living had never crossed our mind

It is shame so many assume I want to buck the system, wonder what the figures are of how many have no property or assets to fund their own care, are they bucking the system by not acquiring any assets during their life, they will receive same care facilities of those who have assets to put into the system.
I suspect some of the posts suggesting I am next to evil have nothing to put into the welfare pot but take plenty out, so for those who have said why should they pay taxes to fund my children's in inheritance, I have to say to them, why should I fund your care from my assets, you pay for yours and I will pay for mine

I can only hope the next generation instead of accepting the rubbish system this country has looks out to the rest world and see how they take care of the elderly.

lostinrates

spaniel_dog wrote: »

This as been an education in how easy folk can see what they want to see in a situation putting their own twist and coming up with 5. Many of you like to think you know what my financial situation is, well unless you have rummaged through my paperwork, you dont. I am not ignorant as SG says but would suggest it appears he makes habit of not getting full story first

If there was facility to attached a scanned document I could show you the correspondence from HMRC 'your employer and pensions agency had applied the same code giving tax-free allowances, as this allowance cant be used twice you have made underpayment during the tax year'.
so although I had gone into zero pay the employer used the code so pension is taxed without allowance, then I got slammed with large tax bill which they added to the monthly tax deducted, 1/3 my pension currently goes in tax

Earlier posting said I was trying to defend myself, I say I have nothing to defend, the thought we had about gifting the children now at this time in their life they need it, was long before it dawned on us it may cause problem later on, hence posting the question in the first place, the question wasnt finding a way of avoiding, care home living had never crossed our mind

It is shame so many assume I want to buck the system, wonder what the figures are of how many have no property or assets to fund their own care, are they bucking the system by not acquiring any assets during their life, they will receive same care facilities of those who have assets to put into the system.
I suspect some of the posts suggesting I am next to evil have nothing to put into the welfare pot but take plenty out, so for those who have said why should they pay taxes to fund my children's in inheritance, I have to say to them, why should I fund your care from my assets, you pay for yours and I will pay for mine

I can only hope the next generation instead of accepting the rubbish system this country has looks out to the rest world and see how they take care of the elderly.

I can assure you, my household pays its fair share and then some. In some salary brackets the. r tax bill is GREATER than the part people get to keep for themselves..

Ah, say people, that's ok, then, you're 'well off'. Then they look at the bills for my medical care (some of which is treatment not available for my rare condition through nhs, at least not promptly, and some care we have just opted to have through bupa, because its faster/ more throrough, though I still use NHs too.) and realise we haven't had heating for three years because having a good income but remaining self provident and not reliant means sometimes doing without.

As for how the rest of the world does it, yes, I'd take a look. I think you might be surprised at how much of the world does it.

I've lived in places more left and more right wing than here. We don't get it so badly wrong. We have choice not accorded in places to the left of us, and support not offered in places to the right of us.

The same problem is faced everywhere, some one has to pay for it. That is the fundamental issue.....someone has to pay for or provide it.

pollypenny

spaniel_dog wrote: »

This as been an education in how easy folk can see what they want to see in a situation putting their own twist and coming up with 5. Many of you like to think you know what my financial situation is, well unless you have rummaged through my paperwork, you dont. I am not ignorant as SG says but would suggest it appears he makes habit of not getting full story first

If there was facility to attached a scanned document I could show you the correspondence from HMRC 'your employer and pensions agency had applied the same code giving tax-free allowances, as this allowance cant be used twice you have made underpayment during the tax year'.
so although I had gone into zero pay the employer used the code so pension is taxed without allowance, then I got slammed with large tax bill which they added to the monthly tax deducted, 1/3 my pension currently goes in tax

Earlier posting said I was trying to defend myself, I say I have nothing to defend, the thought we had about gifting the children now at this time in their life they need it, was long before it dawned on us it may cause problem later on, hence posting the question in the first place, the question wasnt finding a way of avoiding, care home living had never crossed our mind

It is shame so many assume I want to buck the system, wonder what the figures are of how many have no property or assets to fund their own care, are they bucking the system by not acquiring any assets during their life, they will receive same care facilities of those who have assets to put into the system.
I suspect some of the posts suggesting I am next to evil have nothing to put into the welfare pot but take plenty out, so for those who have said why should they pay taxes to fund my children's in inheritance, I have to say to them, why should I fund your care from my assets, you pay for yours and I will pay for mine .

I was trying to embolden your last sentence: too fiddly on an iPad.

Your last sentence is all we've been saying for the whole thread! :cool:

BTW: of those of us who have answered you, I don't know of anyone who is 'bucking the system' to receive free care. We helped our two with to get started, it's now up to them. Our own savings will provide for us, unless we live to 105!

ognum

[QUOTE=spaniel dog;63313376

I can only hope the next generation instead of accepting the rubbish system this country has looks out to the rest world and see how they take care of the elderly.[/QUOTE]

Spaniel Dog how many other countries do you have experience of? I have worked in homeless shelters in the US and in some Caribbean islands, believe me you would rather be old here than there.

I have fed elderly people living in doorways in minus 15 in the East Coast of the US, they truly have nothing except what they carry with them and the state does not support them.

Tell me of your experience of other countries where life is so much better for the elderly?

Tiddlywinks

spaniel_dog wrote: »

......so for those who have said why should they pay taxes to fund my children's in inheritance, I have to say to them, why should I fund your care from my assets, you pay for yours and I will pay for mine

Jolly good - we're all in agreement then...

When the time comes, you sell up and use the proceeds to pay for your care - whether that be with your children providing their help or paying privately.

As you are fully prepared to pay your way there was really no need to start a thread titled 'Can we avoid care home charges'... or am I missing something?