can we avoid care home charges

seven-day-weekend

spaniel_dog wrote: »

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

One thing springs to mind to put to the OP: Just how much do you think living somewhere and paying rent, having 24-hour care, having all your meals cooked, having all bills paid and all upkeep and insurance on the property, costs? Do you really think that the care homes are 'raking it in'? How much would this cost in your own home? I bet not much less than the care homes charge. You would expect to pay for these facilities in your own home, wouldn't you? So why would you not expect to pay for it elsewhere?

And don't forget, those who can't afford it do not have to pay.

I agree it would be lovely if we could all leave our assets to our children, but not always possible, it is not an 'inheritance' until we are dead, before that it is our money and classed as such.

This is why I am glad we were able to help our son out with the deposit to buy his flat, he had had part of his inheritance via that and if he gets no more, sobeit, what is left is ours to be spent on us. I'd rather we didn't have to spend it on care, but I'll tell you what, if my husband had to go into care I would live in a bedsit if it meant he could have the best possible care we could afford. If we have the means we will use them to buy the best there is.

[agree we all want to do best for our children but you have made mistake saying in this thread that you have given funds to your son thats how this thread started by me saying I wanted to gift my girls that led to being accused of attempting to defraud and the comment 'why should I pay tax so you can give your kids money' and for the record I only wanted to know the rules of care costs and the legalities of giving money away and few of the postees will no doubt tell you that you have committed the sin of Deprivation of Assets
I do agree with you about the best possible care its dam shame we need to pay for it at time life shouldnt have to think about money the rest Europe know how to care for their elderley, lets just hope it doesnt come to it and we end days in the comfort own home

But we did not give our son the money in order to avoid care fees! We actually took out a mortgage on our house to do it, and then paid the mortgage off when we sold another property. That's not the same thing at all as giving assets away to avoid fees.

The rest of Europe charge for care fees, afaik. When we lived in Spain, there were hardly any care homes, because the extended family looked after the elderly (and the young), but for those without family there was not much provision and they still had to pay if they had the means. And see the link below about Germany!!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/26/german-elderly-foreign-care-homes

spaniel_dog

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

OP - why have you come back to this thread?

It clearly isn't to take on board any advice given... So, really, what's the point?

If you want an argument then hop on over to the discussion forum in the MSE Arms... the link is at the bottom of the forum home page.

I am very entitled to come back read and comment on my thread, I have had very little relevant advice on my original question other than good explanation of our the costs work how much you are allowed in savings and the important rule on gifting funds to children. From then on I have had to put up with questions on my personal finance, being told I am wrong in fact stubborn following the advice given by tax office and legal bods, even advice from the experts of this site
I dont want any argument so why is everyone trying to argue with me

SailorSam

I've just this minute had a leaflet come through the letterbox from universalseminars.co.uk inviting me to a free seminar in Liverpool,entited 'Keep it in the family' It says it's just not fair that 45,000 families are forced to see their homes to pay for their care.
I think i'll give it a miss, one more for the recycle bin.

pollypenny

spaniel_dog wrote:

I do agree with you about the best possible care its dam shame we need to pay for it at time life shouldnt have to think about money the rest Europe know how to care for their elderley, lets just hope it doesnt come to it and we end days in the comfort own home

Another non sequitur: one's age has no relevance to paying for a service!

So now you want older people to be treated as children.

tooldle

OP, you are not paying extra tax. You have been undercharged because your code had been applied twice. All that is happening is, you are now back paying the IR, the amount that should have been deducted from you in the first instance.

Tiddlywinks

spaniel_dog wrote: »

I dont want any argument so why is everyone trying to argue with me

So, it's not you, it's the others, is it?

spaniel_dog

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

spaniel_dog wrote: »

But we did not give our son the money in order to avoid care fees! We actually took out a mortgage on our house to do it, and then paid the mortgage off when we sold another property. That's not the same thing at all as giving assets away to avoid fees.

The rest of Europe charge for care fees, afaik. When we lived in Spain, there were hardly any care homes, because the extended family looked after the elderly (and the young), but for those without family there was not much provision and they still had to pay if they had the means. And see the link below about Germany!!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/26/german-elderly-foreign-care-homes

thats shocking about Germany wasnt like like few years ago when my daughter lived there, I do despair what the world is coming to.

for sake accuracy I never said I wanted to give away to avoid fees I didnt even know giving away funds would be a problem later in life, (like you want to give children at a time really needed) thought of care had never entered my head then I wondered what the criteria was, a very nice social worker on this site gave me the information I required and explained about the deprivation of assets.
when my mother went into care we just had to give in her pension book charges never came into it (must have been tested and they found out she had nothing)
for some reason many have used the conversation to comment on my job, pay for my job, my incompetence and very many more personal insults, so be very wary of some that like to pick holes in everything you say

seven-day-weekend

spaniel_dog wrote: »

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

thats shocking about Germany wasnt like like few years ago when my daughter lived there, I do despair what the world is coming to.

for sake accuracy I never said I wanted to give away to avoid fees I didnt even know giving away funds would be a problem later in life, (like you want to give children at a time really needed) thought of care had never entered my head then I wondered what the criteria was, a very nice social worker on this site gave me the information I required and explained about the deprivation of assets.
when my mother went into care we just had to give in her pension book charges never came into it (must have been tested and they found out she had nothing)
for some reason many have used the conversation to comment on my job, pay for my job, my incompetence and very many more personal insults, so be very wary of some that like to pick holes in everything you say

I've been on this site long enough to have that happen to me numerous times.

For clarity, you can give your assets away, although there might be tax implications. What you can't do is give them away IN ORDER TO claim means-tested Benefits, of which Care is one. If, as you say, you already have health problems, and then give away all your assets, and then need a place in a care home in the next few years, it will look mighty fishy!

When my husband and I gave our son the money two years ago, we were not (and still are not) claiming any means-tested Benefits and were in our early 60s with no major health problems, so if one of us is suddenly stricken down and has to go into care, there was no reason to suspect, at the time we gave the money away, that we would need a care home. It's the INTENT that is the problem, not the actual deed.

Signing your house over to your children, or selling it and giving them the money, when you already have health issues, will look like deprivation of assets in order to claim Benefits.

margaretclare

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

spaniel_dog wrote: »

I've been on this site long enough to have that happen to me numerous times.

For clarity, you can give your assets away, although there might be tax implications. What you can't do is give them away IN ORDER TO claim means-tested Benefits, of which Care is one. If, as you say, you already have health problems, and then give away all your assets, and then need a place in a care home in the next few years, it will look mighty fishy!

When my husband and I gave our son the money two years ago, we were not (and still are not) claiming any means-tested Benefits and were in our early 60s with no health problems, so if one of us is suddenly stricken down and has to go into care, there was no reason to suspect, at the time we gave the money away, that we would need a care home. It's the INTENT that is the problem, not the actual deed.

Signing your house over to your children, or selling it and giving them the money, when you already have health issues, will look like deprivation of assets in order to claim Benefits.

Well explained, in simple straightforward language that no one can possibly object to.

The OP talks about 'things changing over years' or words to that effect. Would she like to go back to a time when care of the elderly, who couldn't take care of their own needs, really WAS free? The geriatric hospitals which existed in the 1950s, which had really grown out of the workhouse infirmaries of a previous age? I remember visiting a relative of mine about 1960. The walls had been painted magnolia instead of dark brown/green, it was all a bit military. All the old men sat in armchairs beside their beds in rigid lines. I was a student nurse at the time in the neighbouring acute hospital, but there was another grade of nurse doing a shorter, simpler course for a 2-year qualification which really led nowhere but was considered OK because not much brain was needed to do the physical care of those old people. As in the workhouses, men and women were in separate wards. It was physical care and not much, if any, attention was paid to the social needs of the residents, no holistic care, the Nursing Process hadn't yet been thought of! They were kept scrupulously clean, as were their surroundings, they were fed, but that was all. And it was certainly free!

SueC_2

As I see it, what we need from our home changes throughout the path of our lives.

When we are young and first setting out we quite likely rent a room in a shared house.

As we get older and more financially stable we are likely to buy our own home; it is likely to be small, just large enough to accommodate us and perhaps a partner or friend.

As our careers develop and we have more disposable income, we are likely to sell our home so that we can fund a bigger or nicer one, perhaps in a better area.

If/when we start to have children, we need a bigger home still, perhaps somewhere with a garden. So we sell our existing home and find one that is more suitable for our current needs.

As our family continues to grow, we may move again. Each time selling our existing home in order to fund the new one that meets our developing needs.

Then, later, as our children fly the nest, our existing home perhaps becomes too large. So again, we sell our home so that we can move into something more suitable, potentially downsizing to something that is easier to maintain and doesn't have empty unused rooms.

As we become older, and less physically able, perhaps we decide a bungalow would suit us better. So the old home gets sold, and a new one bought.

Possibly living alone then becomes too much, so we sell up and buy somewhere in a sheltered or warden patrolled area so there is the presence of someone to 'watch over' us, while we still retain our independence as far as is possible.

Regardless of our individual circumstances and which of the above life stages we do or don't go through, all of our lives we sell our homes in order to facilitate the next, more appropriate home.

Why should this be any different just because the next type of home required happens to have 'care' involved. It's our home, why shouldn't we pay for it?