Window fitter put his foot through my ceiling!

Mr_Ted

If you dont think you have any duties under H&S as a householder try smoking in your own home when a tradesman visits

But, in this case you are not a householder you have clearly stated that it is a derelict property under renovation and state people go "onsite", THAT makes it a building site, not a domestic property as would be the case if occupied and furnished, and as such you AND ALL tradesman have a duty of care, but ultimately as YOU employ them YOU are responsible for them and ensuring they carryout their duty of care :eek:

All have equally responsibility to carryout risk assessment, although many will have generic assessments for regular tasks, but it is still your duty to ensure they have carried out the correct procedures as you EMPLOY them, and as such are managing the project :eek:

HAZARDS don't just have to be pointed out they have to be clearly MARKED as such, and more to the point in this case MINIMISED

If you look at the H&S posters that HAVE to be displayed, publicly, on all sites, factories, and offices, and places of employment, you should note the bit that says individuals are responsible for their safety and that of others, that means EVERYONE is responsible for the safety of EVERYONE in the workplace, and this IS a workplace:o

TommyBoy

Mr_Ted wrote: »

THAT makes it a building site, not a domestic property

The two are not mutually exclusive. Its a building site and its also my household which I'm refurbishing to move into shortly. Derelict might have been a strong term to use - Its being renovated after 50 years and requires modernising. Either way I think we have established that the H&S workplace rules are not equivalent to those applicable in a household.

keystone

TommyBoy wrote: »

What do you think GDVS was taking about in post 30 then? You dont do risk assessments as a householder!

Dunno - though he was a bit OTT I thought so I glossed over it. Actually you do risk asssessments every time you do anything but most of it is done sub-conciously with subsequent decisions also taken in the same way.

As I've said, I'm aware of my personal duty of care as a householder which is why I raised the risk with their boss when he was onsite before I handed the keys over. I was not there to welcome them and had no control over which employees or subcontractors he sent onsite

So as usual we are not told the full story until late in the day. You know it makes it very difficult to give an opinion (particularly when the poster doesn't want to hear the opinions given) in such circumstances.

Now please look at it dispassionately and refer to Doozergirls post. Its only a minor bit of damage in the greater scheme of things, lucky the lad wasn't damaged by the fall. Accept that everyone, including you, screwed up to a greater or lesser extent. You complain about "blame culture" but its actually you trying to shovel it in spades. Move on. Be less confrontational with the window company and you might see some sort of more positive response towards a contribution for the repair cost and next time put the blasted boards back down.

Cheers

phill99

Alias_Omega wrote: »

I would very much doubt that any tradesman would just walk into a building site without any concern for what they are standing on. Nevermind carrying something fragile/heavy on the first run in.

Usually someone is first into the property, highlight a place to "dump all the stuff" then get it all in from there..

This is an accident, and the tradesman would claim from the company's insurance..

Evidently you have never worked on site.

phill99

TommyBoy wrote: »

Either way I think we have established that the H&S workplace rules are not equivalent to those applicable in a household.

But when your household is a workplace, then all H & S rules apply.

Alias_Omega

phill99 wrote: »

Evidently you have never worked on site.

I would never say never fella..

Old skool City & Guilds 236.. :P

Oh how I hated pyro..

Mr_Ted

:mad: There is another issue here that seems to have been totally disregarded by the OP and that is, WHAT INJURIES did the window fitter sustain?

Putting a foot through a ceiling can cause very serious injuries, at the least a grazed leg with splinters, and the possibility of infection due to the constituent parts of an old ceiling, to a broken leg :eek:

There is also the possibility of, as he was carrying glass, of other injuries that THAT could cause if it smashed :eek:

There seems a callous disregard for the injured party in favour of quips about H&S gone mad and the pathetic cost of a repairs and what responsibilities have been ignored, FACE FACTS OP you have been lucky so far that cost of a litigation have not appeared, NOT YET ANYWAY :mad:

Mallotum_X

How big a hole are we talking? You will have loads of patching up to do after the electricians anyway, just the get the plasterer to repair the area damaged and move on.

In these kind of renovations all sorts of things happen along the way. If the worst issue is a foot through a ceiling then it will have been a smooth ride.

Stop getting so worked up over something that in the scheme of things is pretty petty.

evoke

Dear Lord! Three pages for a hole in the ceiling on a house that is a building site. OP: just get it repaired and stop expending energy and stress on what is almost a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.

These things happen and you just deal with them as and when they happen.

googler

evoke wrote: »

Dear Lord! Three pages for a hole in the ceiling on a house that is a building site. OP: just get it repaired and stop expending energy and stress on what is almost a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.

Well, since some folks here seem to suggest that homeowners have responsibility for the H&S of their contractors, I would still welcome definitive clarification on when my home might become a 'site' subject to H&S legislation, and when I have responsibilities under legislation, if any.

I found this;

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/index.htm

Construction and Design Management Regulations 2007, which leads to

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/areyou/client.htm

Question 1: Who has client responsibilities under CDM 2007?

Answer: A client is someone who is having construction or building work carried out, unless they are a domestic client. A domestic client is someone who lives, or will live, in the premises where the work is carried out. The premises must not relate to any trade, business or other undertaking. Although a domestic client does not have duties under CDM, those who work for them on construction projects will.


Which seems, in this case, to fairly and squarely place the responsibility on the various trades for their own H&S. Does anyone have anything which contradicts this?