Window fitter put his foot through my ceiling!

googler

Could someone clarify when someone's home becomes a 'site' that's subject to legislation such as H&S? A legal definition would be nice, preferably with a link to some legislation that defines it.

Could someone also clarify which legislation specifies that a homeowner has a 'duty of care' to any or all tradesmen that enter their home?

Or any legislation that requires a homeowner to carry out a risk assessment?

FWIW, I had four trades in recently for a bathroom refurb - plumber, joiner, plasterer, electrician, and, I don't think too unreasonably, I left it to them to ensure that their working practices were safe. I wasn't looking over their shoulders to check their work.

plumb1_2

TommyBoy wrote: »

Health and safety gone mad! You have to remember I am a homeowner. !

Yes H/S is ott sometimes, even being a householder, you still have to provide a duty of care to anyone who visits your property, either a tradesman or guest.

I would suggest that all householders have insurance, just the times we live in now sadly. Public liability just the one of many items tradesmen have to have, those that don't are fools.

I bet you wont leave any flooring up in future

thebaldwindowfitter

TommyBoy wrote: »

Health and safety gone mad! You have to remember I am a homeowner. I'm not a construction company, a property developer or a project manager, just a homeowner asking some builders and tradesmen to do some jobs for me. Most homeowners would even know what a risk assessment is. Domestic clients have no duties under the CDM 2007 Regulations, you can check that with the HSE!

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/homeowners_guidance.pdf

Keep up with the times published in 2013 due to the amount of selfbuilders doing project management themselves .You are at fault and so is your electrician as has already been suggested i would keep quiet if i was you, yes it is a blame culture and you will be very lucky not to get a counter claim against you if you keep on

Toxteth_OGrady

thebaldwindowfitter wrote: »

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/homeowners_guidance.pdf

That appears to be a Republic of Ireland legislation document.

Doozergirl

googler wrote: »

Could someone clarify when someone's home becomes a 'site' that's subject to legislation such as H&S? A legal definition would be nice, preferably with a link to some legislation that defines it.

Could someone also clarify which legislation specifies that a homeowner has a 'duty of care' to any or all tradesmen that enter their home?

Or any legislation that requires a homeowner to carry out a risk assessment?

FWIW, I had four trades in recently for a bathroom refurb - plumber, joiner, plasterer, electrician, and, I don't think too unreasonably, I left it to them to ensure that their working practices were safe. I wasn't looking over their shoulders to check their work.

A domestic client does not have a duty of care. A domestic client is someone who lives at the property or will be moving in after. Which is why I asked earleir if the OP was moving in. Then H&S is the contractor's responsibility.

There's confusion when there are different trades on site.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/

Fact is, the house is being rewired which means extensive plastering. New windows is also likely to mean replastering. The cost of filling in the hole will be negligable. When the plasterers are in, then I'd just get it done as part of the job, it's not worth compensating over.

I think lines of responsibility are pretty blurred. OP has several trades in, there is not a main contractor. It pushes OP to the realm of 'contractor'. Electrician should not have left boards up with other trades around (regardless of what they think is normal) and the window people should have done a risk assessment. I think everyone needs their heads banging together and we need to be grateful that this chap wasn't seriously hurt, not worried about a £3.50 bit of plasterboard.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

Leif

plumb1 wrote: »

I would suggest that all householders have insurance, just the times we live in now sadly. Public liability just the one of many items tradesmen have to have, those that don't are fools.

When I ran my own limited company, I paid £500 a year for insurances.

keystone

TommyBoy wrote: »

I'm not a construction company, a property developer or a project manager,

No you aren't thats why the CDM 2007 Regs don't apply.

Domestic clients have no duties under the CDM 2007 Regulations, you can check that with the HSE!

Nobody said you did. You do, however, have duties and responsibilities to those visitors you have invited into your home under the Occupiers Liability Act of 1957.

All this nonsense over a relatively minor bit of damage which probably could have been avoided by just putting the bloody boards back down or ensuring that they were or just by telling the guys doing the work that the boards were up. Sheesh!

Cheers

keystone

Doozergirl wrote: »

A domestic client does not have a duty of care.

Except as per the Occupiers Liability Act of 1957 he does. Other than that - brilliant post.

Cheers

TommyBoy

Doozergirl wrote: »

I think lines of responsibility are pretty blurred. OP has several trades in, there is not a main contractor. It pushes OP to the realm of 'contractor'. Electrician should not have left boards up with other trades around (regardless of what they think is normal) and the window people should have done a risk assessment. I think everyone needs their heads banging together and we need to be grateful that this chap wasn't seriously hurt, not worried about a £3.50 bit of plasterboard.

Thankyou Doozergirl, a very insightful post! I agree the lines of responsibility are very blurred. Unfortunately the repair cost will be significantly more than £3.50 which is why I was asking for peoples opinions today.

TommyBoy

keystone wrote: »

Nobody said you did. You do, however, have duties and responsibilities to those visitors you have invited into your home under the Occupiers Liability Act of 1957.

What do you think GDVS was taking about in post 30 then? You dont do risk assessments as a householder!

As I've said, I'm aware of my personal duty of care as a householder which is why I raised the risk with their boss when he was onsite before I handed the keys over. I was not there to welcome them and had no control over which employees or subcontractors he sent onsite, therefore if he failed to mention the risk and/or or the staff weren't properly H&S trained and/or they lacked adequate liability insurance I am at no fault.