Window fitter put his foot through my ceiling!

TommyBoy

Hi all, hope this post is in the right area. I'm in the middle of a derelict house renovation at the moment and have various tradesmen coming and going on a daily basis. For the last few weeks the electricians have been in and out doing a rewire and as expected they have several floorboards up as they are running new cables around the house.

Anyway, last week we had our window fitters in and one of the young lads came upstairs carrying a sheet of glass and put his foot through the open floorboard and through my lounge ceiling. I've had a word with their boss and he is refusing to accept responsibility as he says the boards shouldnt have been up and his insurance wont pay out when there is a health & safety breach. As far as I'm concerned they should be used to working on building sites and if they had any concerns about the working environment they should have let me know.

What are peoples thoughts on where I stand and how I should proceed? :mad:

TDPIX

Sounds like they're just trying it on. I'd certainly be deducting the cost of the ceiling repair from whatever I owed the window fitters.

Doubt they could do much.

WestonDave

Depending on the circumstances I've some sympathy with them. My initial reaction on reading the title before opening the thread for the detail was to wonder how on earth in a normal home a window fitter would encounter uncovered ceilings. I should imagine most of their work is done in live warm homes where damaging the carpet or walls is more of an issue than dodging missing floor boards.

So if when they measured up there was no indication that floors would be missing because other trades would be on site, its a bit hard to expect them maybe to have deployed more experienced staff better equipped to dodge the holes.

Where you go depends a bit on the size of the problem - a foot sized hole, I'd probably fix it myself and chalk it down to experience. Half the ceiling down and its worth the risk of legal action. However it is a risk because if he successfully argues you should have warned him about the potential holes, you're going to be down not just the cost of the ceiling but his legal costs and yours on top. Might be worth seeing if a local solicitor has a free half hour advice - if they'd take it on no win no fee then its worth pushing - if they won't then it means they don't fancy your chances.

Mr_Ted

:eek: Sorry but as the owner of the property, and as an individual, and also whoever left the boards up you are solely responsible for the health and safety of others who may enter the area!
It is your duty and that of whoever left the boards up to notify any hazards and clearly identify them!
You are also as is any individual responsible for the health and safety of others, and as such if there were failures on anyone's part and injury has ocurred, never mind damage to property, the Health and Safety Executive should be informed under RIDDOR as your property is a place of work!
http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/

There is NO NEED to leave boards up, they can have the nails removed and be replaced loosely for easy removal at any time to make things safe, or other boarding placed over holes with signage to identify a possible H&S issue!

Sorry but rather than a claim against the Window Fitter you will be lucky if a claim isn't made against you and your electrician :mad:

martinsurrey

Putting aside if I agree with it or not, here is how it works in our blame culture

As its your building site, it’s your responsibility to provide a safe working environment for all of the subbies on site.

You failed to do this as you didn’t manage the workflow of the work, and as site manager (I assume you are not using a project manager) it’s your fault.

This is what happens if you employ an electrician to do the electrics, and a window fitter to fit the windows, which one of them is being paid to make sure they all work together, safely... No one, it’s up to you.

This is part of the reason a project manager costs 10% of the build cost, he’ll be insured up to the eye balls.

If he’d broken his neck, it would be you the insurers would be coming after.

Now the outcome, you can chase them for the money, but they’ll then chase you for it for breaching your duty of care.

Plus I bet that would result in the young guy being off work for a few weeks, with a claim from a personal injury lawyer to follow soon after (to you personally).


(now I can’t see why he wasn’t looking where he was going, the idiot, but its not what I think that matters)

TommyBoy

Mr_Ted wrote: »

It is your duty and that of whoever left the boards up to notify any hazards and clearly identify them!

I probably should have mentioned that it was their boss who came and surveyed the property the week before and he was made fully aware of the state of the boards and to call me immediately if there were any issues with the job. IMHO this should have been relayed to his staff.

comeandgo

Sorry OP, I agree you are at fault, you must have a safe working environment for people to come to your property or site.

keystone

I too agree with the substance of previous posts. If you have boards up and need to keep them up for accessibility then the nails should be knocked out and the boards relaid loose but sitting on the joists so that nobody can put their foot through them but so that they can easily be lifted again. (Edit Ted already said this)

You could well see a claim against you if you deduct moneys from their bill arbitrarily and/or pursue this matter.

Cheers

TommyBoy

Thanks for the thoughts folks. I have some sympathy with their situation however a building site has inherent dangers and I feel the that the hazards were identified clearly when their boss came round and surveyed the week before this.

DTDfanBoy

Why do you think the window fitter put his foot through your ceiling then, obviously the hazard was clearly marked, do you think he did it intentionally for a payout.

Perhaps he was hoping to fall straight through and break a leg or two, or even his back £££££

keystone

Thanks for the thoughts folks. I have some sympathy with their situation however a building site has inherent dangers and I feel the that the hazards were identified clearly when their boss came round and surveyed the week before this.

Maybe but that doesn't absolve you of your responsibility for making sure that hazards are clearly identified and notified at the time. Hazards change from week to week! Sorry but what you "feel" doesn't come into it. What would you be doing if it had been your foot that had gone through the ceiling - blaming the sparky's for leaving the boards up? Just askin'

Cheers