Window fitter put his foot through my ceiling!

Ben84

How big is this hole? If we're talking about a hole the size of a foot or smaller, then it's really just a matter of fixing some plasterboard or plywood on the top and plastering over below. It's simple to DIY and easily costs less than £10 in materials.

Leif

I'm not arguing with those who know more than me about this, but am I the only one who thinks this odd?

If I, a householder, hire a trade to do some work on my private house, and then hire another trade who while doing his work, injures him or her-self due to a hazard create by the first trade, then I am responsible, according to the conversation here. Even if I do not understand what the first trade did, and was not aware that it was dangerous.

Or to put it another way, if I hire a trade, I have to follow them round, making sure everything is safe before another trade can enter. And if multiple trades are at work at the same time, I have to watch them all.

And before someone says, I know a missing floorboard is obvious to all but the blind householder. Oh, and what happens if the householder is blind?

plumb1_2

TommyBoy wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on where I stand and how I should proceed? :mad:

Mr Ted has nailed the answer for you. You have a duty of care for anyone who visits your site. Thing can change hourly on any working site.

In plain English, keep your gob shut, don't make any waves and you maybe lucky the young lad doesn't make a claim against you, Injury lawyers would love to get hold of this claim.

keystone

Leif wrote: »

.........and was not aware that it was dangerous.

but in this case OP was aware as it was mentioned to the window estimator/surveyor.

Oh, and what happens if the householder is blind?

Good point but in that case wouldn't he/she be using the services of a nominated project manager for his/her project.

Cheers

keystone

Ben84 wrote: »

It's simple to DIY and easily costs less than £10 in materials.

Or he pays the spread an extra tenner to fix it whilst he has got him in fixing the mess the sparkies have left of his walls.

Cheers

TommyBoy

Keystone you seem to be missing the point. I am aware that I have a duty of care which is why I informed the surveyor of the dangers whilst he was on site. Other than following around each tradesman watching over their shoulder hour by hour checking which boards they are lifting and when they are putting back there isn't anything else I could have done. Whether this was enough warning is a subjective matter for the courts to decide if needs be. They knew the hazard, they knew the job, they didn't highlight any issues therefore IMHO the fault lies with them.

I thank you all for your opinions anyway, it is interesting to hear both sides of the fence.

Leif

keystone wrote: »

but in this case OP was aware as it was mentioned to the window estimator/surveyor.

I did make that point in my post, but as a general rule it seems far too risky to allow any trades into the house without a full health and safety risk assessment ... DIY is the preferred route.

keystone

TommyBoy wrote: »

Keystone you seem to be missing the point.

No I am not missing the point at all.

I am aware that I have a duty of care which is why I informed the surveyor of the dangers whilst he was on site.

Yes and in post 11 I said:

Maybe but that doesn't absolve you of your responsibility for making sure that hazards are clearly identified and notified at the time. Hazards change from week to week!

Plumb said exactly the same thing although he made it hourly.

I would have great sympathy with your POV if you had said that you had clearly warned the window company's staff as they arrived on site that there were floorboards up in x, y and z rooms and that they need to take extra care. Mind you I think I'd have put the boards back sans nails anyway.

The fact that you haven't said that kinda suggests you didn't but relied on something you had told another guy a week earlier.

Whether this was enough warning is a subjective matter for the courts to decide if needs be.

You cant be subjective - sorry but you have to be objective. Objectively nearly every single poster on this thread is telling you which way is up. You don't want to hear it though mainly because you are not being objective. What do you plan to sue for? A few tens of pounds worth of ceiling repairs. Sorry thats plain bonkers.

They knew the hazard, they knew the job, they didn't highlight any issues therefore IMHO the fault lies with them.

No a single member of their company was informed that there were hazards a week previously. Once again if you had spoken to the company's staff as they arrived on site then I'd probably be on your side. Drop it - move on it isn't worth the amount of energy you clearly wish to expend on it. Frankly I think you would lose if this went anywhere near a court but if you want to find out the hard way then I can't stop you.

I thank you all for your opinions anyway, it is interesting to hear both sides of the fence.

Yes its been an interesting discussion.

Cheers

GDVS

TommyBoy wrote: »

I am aware that I have a duty of care which is why I informed the surveyor of the dangers whilst he was on site. Other than following around each tradesman watching over their shoulder hour by hour checking which boards they are lifting and when they are putting back there isn't anything else I could have done. Whether this was enough warning is a subjective matter for the courts to decide if needs be. They knew the hazard, they knew the job, they didn't highlight any issues therefore IMHO the fault lies with them.

And this is all documented in your risk assessment along with the actions taken to mitigate the risks? There were a dozen things you could have done, you didn't do any of them. If I were you I'd keep quiet, you're absolutely at fault and without a written risk assessment (I'm making an assumption but see nothing in your posts to indicate you did one) you don't have a leg to stand on for a claim against them or much of a defence against any counter claim.

TommyBoy

GDVS wrote: »

And this is all documented in your risk assessment along with the actions taken to mitigate the risks? There were a dozen things you could have done, you didn't do any of them. If I were you I'd keep quiet, you're absolutely at fault and without a written risk assessment (I'm making an assumption but see nothing in your posts to indicate you did one) you don't have a leg to stand on for a claim against them or much of a defence against any counter claim.

Health and safety gone mad! You have to remember I am a homeowner. I'm not a construction company, a property developer or a project manager, just a homeowner asking some builders and tradesmen to do some jobs for me. Most homeowners would even know what a risk assessment is. Domestic clients have no duties under the CDM 2007 Regulations, you can check that with the HSE!