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Successful complaints about private parking tickets - how to get them cancelled!

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  • Good to hear!
    CEL are actually based in london, their liverpool address is just a mail forwarding address, there isnt actually anyone there
    Proud to be a member of the Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Gang.:D:T
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    PCM , Haydon Way , London ?

    First appeal and ticket was cancelled

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4902019
  • Hi,

    I recently successfully appealed to POPLA against a ParkingEye parking ticket. My defence owed a lot to Coupon-mad, Umkomaas and others whom provided very clear and helpful advice on this forum – so thank you all. The assessor’s finding was:

    It is the Appellant’s case that the parking charge notice was issued incorrectly. The Operator has not produced a copy of the parking charge notice, nor any evidence to show a breach of the conditions of parking occurred, nor any evidence that shows what the conditions of parking, in fact, were. Accordingly I have no option but to allow the appeal.

    Here was my defence which may be of interest to others:

    POPLA Reference: xxxx
    Vehicle Registration: xxxx
    PPC: ParkingEye
    Parking Charge Notice: xx/xx
    Date of PCN: xxxx
    Time of Alleged Contravention Date: xxxx

    Dear POPLA Adjudicator,

    I am the registered Keeper of the above vehicle and appeal against the above charge. I contend that I am not liable for the parking charge on the following grounds:

    1. Neither ParkingEye or their client has proved that they have planning consent to charge motorists for any alleged contravention;

    2. ParkingEye has no contract with the landowner that permits them to levy charges on motorists up to pursuit of these charges through the courts;

    3. The signage at the car park was not compliant with the British Parking Association standards and there was no valid contract between ParkingEye and the driver;

    4. The amount demanded is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    Here are the detailed appeal points:

    1. No right to charge motorists for overstaying

    Planning consent is required for car parks and have conditions that grant permission as the car park is a service to the community. To apply time limits, charges and install automatic number plate recognition cameras, planning consent is required for this change in the use of land. I have no evidence that planning consent was obtained and I put ParkingEye to strict proof to provide evidence that there is planning consent to cover the current parking conditions and charging regime in this car park.


    2. No valid contract with landowner

    It is widely known that some contracts between landowner and parking companies have ”authority limit clauses” that specify that parking companies are limited in the extent to which they may pursue motorists. One example from a case in the appeal court is ParkingEye –v- Somerfield Stores (2012) where Somerfield attempted to end the contract with ParkingEye as ParkingEye had exceeded the limit of action allowed under their contract.

    In view of this, and the British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice section 7 that demands that valid contract with mandatory clauses specifying the extent of the parking company’s authority, I require ParkingEye to produce a copy of the contract with the landowner that shows POPLA that they do, indeed have such authority.

    It has also been widely reported that some parking companies have provided “witness statements” instead of the relevant contract. There is no proof whatsoever that the alleged signatory on behalf of the landowner has ever seen the relevant contract, or, indeed is even an employee of the landowner. I require, if such a witness statement is submitted, that it is accompanied by a letter, on landowner’s headed notepaper, and signed by a director or equivalent of the landowner, confirming that the signatory is, indeed, authorised to act on behalf of the landowner, has read and the relevant terms of the contract and is qualified to attest to the full limit of authority of ParkingEye.


    3. The signage at the car park was not compliant with the BPA standards and therefore there was no valid contract between the parking company and the driver

    I have visited the site in question.
    ParkingEye use standard signs: unreadable and overly-busy, small-font with blue & yellow colouring. The signs are sporadically placed some located below floodlighting and cast in shadow when the floodlights are operating. I believe these signs and any terms and conditions that ParkingEye rely upon were not sufficiently clear and would not been seen, read or understood by a driver in a moving vehicle in circumstances of inclement weather and in the darkness of the early hours of the morning. ParkingEye needs to show evidence and signage map/photos on this point - specifically showing the height of the signs and where they are at the entrance, whether a driver still in a car can see and read them in these circumstances when deciding to drive in. Any terms displayed on the ticket machines or on a ticket itself, do not alter the contract which must be shown in full at the entrance. I believe the signs failed to properly and clearly warn and inform the driver of the terms in this car park as they failed to comply with the BPA Code of Practice appendix B. I require the operator to provide photographic evidence that proves otherwise.

    A POPLA assessor found in a previous adjudication: “Once an Appellant submits that the terms of parking were not displayed clearly enough, the onus is then on the Operator to demonstrate that the signs at the time and location in question were sufficiently clear”. ParkingEye must prove that the driver actually saw, read and accepted the terms, which means that I and the POPLA adjudicator would be led to believe that a conscious decision was made by the driver to park in exchange for paying the extortionate parking charge ParkingEye is demanding, rather than the standard parking fee. The idea that any driver would accept these terms knowingly is perverse and beyond credibility.

    4. The amount demanded is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss


    ParkingEye seek to recover a £100 parking charge (the maximum allowed under the British Parking Association Code of Practice) from the driver for a twenty-four minute stay in the car park. This charge is not commercially justified and is in fact an arbitrary amount that is punitive. The wording on the signs appears to indicate that the parking charge represents damages for a breach of the parking contract - liquidated damages, in other words compensation agreed in advance. Accordingly, the parking charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss. ParkingEye must show that the losses are directly related and flow from the alleged breach of contract by the driver.


    In their letter to me of xxxx ParkingEye maintain that its charges have been held to be enforceable in previous cases; however, they have not produced any evidence to justify this parking charge. The losses suffered by breaches of a parking contract may vary depending on the nature of the car park, and the nature of the breach. That a parking charge at a certain level is held not to be a penalty in one car park, does not mean that the same sum is a pre-estimate of the loss applicable in every case in different car parks. ParkingEye also describe the significant costs in managing the car park to ensure motorists comply with the stated terms and conditions. They also state costs associated with maintenance of the site signage, monitoring and maintenance of the site signage and cameras, employment of office-based staff and memberships fees etc. This justification is on the basis of general business costs incurred through their provision of car park management services rather than actual loss directly caused from the alleged breach. In paragraph three of the same letter at the bottom of page three, ParkingEye openly admit that their estimate of cost in each case is actually £53 and that the charge they are seeking to impose in this case has a considerable element of profit as well as operating costs incorporated. This is clear evidence in ParkingEye’s own words that the parking charge claimed cannot be a true pre-estimate of loss. I maintain that the parking charge is not commercially justified and does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss and so is not enforceable.

    This concludes my appeal.
  • Stroma
    Stroma Posts: 7,971 Forumite
    Uniform Washer
    You should put that in the popla thread ;) well done though
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • I will do and thanks Stroma.
  • Stroma
    Stroma Posts: 7,971 Forumite
    Uniform Washer
    Another successful complaint that has worked
    Just a quick update
    Have received confirmation from PE that they have cancelled their PCN following my appeal to them.

    Feeling both pleased to have got rid of them and also a bit disappointed that I won't be costing them money for a POPLA ;)

    I was a complete ignoramus about the Private Parking scam when I got their PCN and may well have just paid up because without all the great information in your NEWBIES thread and the excellent help I received, I wouldn't have had a clue what to do.

    So a huge thank you to all of you both for your expertise and the enormous amount of time you must give to helping educate us numb skulls about how to fight these illegal and unenforceable charges.:T:T

    I was amazed to discover only 1.1% of these IMO attempts to extort money ever get to the POPLA stage and that the vast majority just pay. I've decided to try to help inform people that they don't have to pay.

    I'm in danger of becoming a parking bore because I tell everyone I meet about your site and Pranksters.

    I also intend putting together a flyer which I'm going to hand out at the car park in question and once I've drafted it would be grateful for your input on the wording if that would be ok.

    Many many thanks
    CC
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • natasha3
    natasha3 Posts: 10 Forumite
    Hi, wonder if anyone can help?- Parked over the time allowed in private car park and P.E. have sent numerous notices. I contacted landowner and they agreed to waive the charge, saying they'd notify P.E. and I'd have the charge dropped. P.E. still chasing- now asking for evidence,- but why should I have to provide this if landowner has intervened? (I sent P.E a copy of landowner's email). Will their message to me be adequate to provide to a court hearing? Thanks all.
  • Stroma
    Stroma Posts: 7,971 Forumite
    Uniform Washer
    You are on a thread about successful complaints, so please create your own thread
    When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
    We don't need the following to help you.
    Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
    :beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:
  • zzzLazyDaisy
    zzzLazyDaisy Posts: 12,497 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    You really need to start a new thread of your own (go to page one of this forum and click the blue tab at the top). This will mean that you will get advice tailored to your own situation.
    I'm a retired employment solicitor. Hopefully some of my comments might be useful, but they are only my opinion and not intended as legal advice.
  • I would like to tell you of my recent successes. The first against smark parking in st marks retail park lincoln, I appealed to so which was refused along with threats not to use templates off internet forums, I also wrote a strong letter to st marks management company saying I was a genuine customer shopping and their agents were treating me like a criminal threatening Mr with court for a short overstay and they were alienating customers - another two days and the PC had written to me saying the charge was cancelled - with no explanation, I an sure it was the landowner that sorted it though.

    Second case was my local aldi and parking eye, I have been a genuine customer for many years as it is the closest shop and all the supermarkets here have PCs in. I wrote a strong letter to the manager and two days later he came to my door - said the charge would be cancelled - took the letter from me and said not to worry.

    It took me many days to work out what and how to do, but it was worth it.

    Thank you to all you regular helpers - your time, expertise and help is very much appreciated.
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