advice needed asap.

catkins

Neveranymoney,I have just read your last post and it has made me happy. You and your family sound such lovely people. Lots of people would have just got rid of Scampers straight away - I'm not saying that it would have been wrong to do that - but you are all giving him another chance.

As you say, you don't know his history. He could have been attacked before, he could have been illtreated etc but he has certainly landed on his paws with your family.

I totally understand what you were saying. The behaviourists I saw said the same thing about a dog onlead feeling threatened if the other dog doesn't greet politely or if your dog has been attacked before, particularly if he was onlead then too. As I said in one of my previous posts (there have been a lot of posts and I am sure you have not been able to take them all in) one behaviourist likened it to me sitting on a park bench minding my own business and another person sitting down as close as possible and pushing their face into mine. Of course I would feel anxious, scared, threatened etc whether it was a man or a woman.

I do realise you are not blaming the other dog or owner but Scampers maybe should not take all the blame. Even with my friendly puppy I tend not to just let him and other dogs get really close the first time they meet.

You are right, it will be a long road but it will also be a worthwhile one and as I said before, if I could do it, you can.

Scampers has shown no sign of aggression with your family or other people has he and the behaviourist is right ANY dog can turn on a person or dog - no dog can ever be 100% guaranteed safe

Person_one

zaksmum wrote: »

It's all very well trying to walk your dog in a remote area.

But I could look left and right and there wouldn't be another dog in sight.

And then you could bet your life the minute I get out there with my dog, someone with their dog off lead will appear and that dog will come streaking across the field to my dog, jump all over him and then all hell will break loose with my dog trying to murder it and me hanging onto the lead with all my strength!

This has actually happened to me several times - once at 6am on a wet June morning!

And muzzling my dog would definitely put him at risk from the loose staffies that are allowed to wander round here on their own because the owners can't be bothered to walk them.

For crying out loud, please muzzle your dog!

neveranymoney

Catkins, thank you so much for a lovely reply. I want to know I have done the very best I can for that wee dog - the thought of him going back to the kennels, maybe never being rehomed or going to the wrong people really, truly crucified me. I could kick myself for not saying to husband, cross the road, do this, do that but the guy said lets view it as not a positive but at least now we know what we are dealing with here and pro active steps are going to be taken. Scampers was obviously petrified and this could have happened at another time.

I couldn't give a fig what people think when he is Hannibal lectored, I am calmer and people will stay away. I know the muzzle is not the solution, he will always have a problem with dogs on leash and this bite could probably escalate as in a way, he got what he wanted, lots of shouting and attention and the other dog was very quickly removed from him when he released his grip, so the behaviourist could end up a complete blessing.

He also discussed long lines and all positive, up beat stuff and I really feel he can help me with a good solid training basis in all areas, I swear, my mind was blown a bit.

Person_one

neveranymoney wrote: »

Scampers had no room to flight instead of fight and felt he had no choice but to defend himself - it is natural for the human owner to do this but its not the best for the dog and that these things don't happen so often off leash - not that he was advocating that - you know what I mean!

I think you've found a good trainer there, this is completely right in my opinion. Being on a short lead is not at all natural and its a far more stressful way for them to be around other dogs. My dogs spend an awful lot of time off lead, and the greetings and interactions between off lead dogs are usually absolutely fine and lovely to see. If they take a dislike to each other they just stay out of the way! Dogs that are well socialised are really good at reading each other's body language! This is why I always think its such a shame that so many dogs today never meet another dog off lead in their entire lives.

Stick with this guy, I suspect he'll be very helpful, and best of luck as you have a steep learning curve ahead of you.

neveranymoney

Person_one, this guy seemed to know and love dogs like you wouldn't believe. He talked for over three hours, left it up to me if I wanted him to come out or not and was just dead relaxed and honest.

He mentioned how my trust in the dog needed built up again, all the training, although a long road will be fun for us and scamp, oh, all sorts. He felt the same as us, that scampers original home was maybe older people who just wanted a companion dog and that's why he just likes lying beside you as he got rewarded for that and it is learnt behaviour and he doesn't know how to play as maybe no one did and he may have been physically punished.

I said that obviously the financial responsibility of the other dog should fall to me, but that I honestly dreaded ever meeting that poor lady again and what damage had been inflicted there and he hoped that if that happened she would be as reasonable as possible if I explained that scampers is a rescue dog and we hadn't had him a long time. Although to be honest, I would imagine that would be cold comfort. I think he knew I was extremely upset about it and he said that blood often makes things look far worse.

Person_one

If that had happened to me and I saw you again, if you apologised and clearly meant it, and explained the situation, and if you told me about all the effort you'd put in since by getting a muzzle and seeing a vet and a behaviourist, and if you offered to pay the vet bill, I would come away from my second meeting with you satisfied and feeling better about the situation and I would smile and nod when I saw you around.

If she's reasonable, and compassionate, and a true dog lover, I think she'd react like I would.

minimad1970

The information that the man's given you sounds the same as I've been told by the trainer that Truffle sees, although a lot of the time it seems to be me that needs most of the training!

We do clicker training and now when he sees another dog Truffle just looks to me for a treat and on we go with our walk, as long as they're not invading his space. We also do training with a stooge dog and apparently Truffle has good manners as he doesn't approach other dogs head on, not that we let them get too close.

Sometimes Truffle will bark at the stooge dog but the trainer notices that it's often something the other dog has done to provoke it, where as all I see is my dog acting up because he's the one making the noise.

It's quite slow progress but hopefully it will work for you and your dog as well. The hardest thing is to relax, when all you're doing is waiting for it all to kick off.

Good luck and I hope it all goes well with the trainer.

zaksmum

Person_one wrote: »

For crying out loud, please muzzle your dog!

No chance.

Person_one

zaksmum wrote: »

No chance.

So irresponsible. :mad:

Soubrette

My old boy (ex racing greyhound) used to wear a muzzle all the time. He wore one because he was extremely cat keen and I never wanted to be in a position of having to tell some poor cat owner that my dog had injured (or worse) their cat.

He was also dog aggressive. We picked him up at 8 from a greyhound rescue and he was one of their long termers, they'd picked him up from another rescue and his tattoo showed he raced until 4 so he'd probably been kennelled all his life, mostly with other greyhounds.

The muzzle kept most other dogs away which was good but he would occasionally be accosted by the friendly unsocialised dog, cue lots of lunging and barking (and sometimes growling). I used to deliberately walk him 50 foot then 40 then 30 etc behind other dogs, close enough so he could see them but not close enough for him to react to them.

If a dog came close then I would put myself between them and show that I wasn't scared. If I walked with someone else and we met a friendly dog, I would go ahead while the other person held my boy's lead and I would greet the other dog. We also looked after a couple of very calm dogs so a couple of times a year he would have other dogs to walk with who were well socialised.

A combination of this and after two years we had a dog that was not afraid or aggressive to other dogs and would sniff and say hello, he was able to be walked off lead and unmuzzled and, like person_one says, it is a lovely thing to watch, a dog doing doggy things . He was once greeting a puppy and it was so excited it bit his nose and he did nothing, I was so proud :smileyhea

That said, it was hard work and it often felt like one step forward and two steps back and he never ever understood the signs of another dog not wanting to be greeted (even though he was once like that!). We had to put our boy down a few months back and we're still at the stage where it feels like no dog will ever be as perfect as our boy, in part because of all the work we put in together (dog and humans)- he absolutely trusted us 100% to keep him safe.

Good luck, if it's anything like my experience it's going to be hard work but that will not only bring about a change in your lad's behaviour but it will bring you closer together too (be prepared for heartache and frustration though).