Selling V5 without car

Gloomendoom

facade wrote: »

I'm still puzzled as to where these V5s come from, unless it is some sort of fiddle with exporting to Far Far Away Land without telling the DVLA and SORNing a now non-existent car.

They usually come from cars or bikes that have been broken up. Instead of telling the DVLA that he has scrapped the car, the owner just sells the V5 on.

londonTiger

I would imagine the v5 stays with the chassis. Or ideally should stay with it if it's been parted off. Unless it's rusted really bad that it had to be scrapped and v5 left over.

toolmaker54

On older cars the Chassis No. was stamped onto a plate which was riveted to the body, that's why some V5/logbooks come with the plate as well.

vaio

facade wrote: »

Where do these V5 and chassis plates come from?

You would have thought that he could have sold the shell with the V5 & plates (even if it was badly damaged) for more than the total he could get for the V5 & plates and a shell with no identity.

I don't think you can use the shell as a classic racer without an identity..

Strange circumstance anyway

Don't know about strange...If I had an old terminally rusty/damaged RS2000 shell then I could legally re-shell it, transfer the identity/VIN/V5 etc then scrap the remains.

Practically, how does that differ from what the ebay seller is doing?

Would it be ok for him to sell the unrepairable shell complete with identity so the buyer had to scrap the remains after (or before) he had re-shelled it?.

Joe_Horner

vaio wrote: »

Don't know about strange...If I had an old terminally rusty/damaged RS2000 shell then I could legally re-shell it, transfer the identity/VIN/V5 etc then scrap the remains.

Practically, how does that differ from what the ebay seller is doing?

Would it be ok for him to sell the unrepairable shell complete with identity so the buyer had to scrap the remains after (or before) he had re-shelled it?.

You could legally re-shell it using a new (Heritage or similar) or previously un-used NOS shell and most of the running gear from the scrap car.

That's entirely different, morally and practically, to rivetting its chassis plate onto the one you nicked last week, which is what these "kits" are being sold for in reality.

vaio

I didn't think the rules for identity on rebuilt cars specified new or previously unused shells, got a link to that particular law?

The big problem with ringing a stolen car is you still end up with a stolen engine number, try and get that changed on the V5 and you'll have plod at your door PDQ

facade

They don't.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/reconstructed-classic-vehicles

You can build a car from a mix of period parts and get a new registration as a classic car with a period number and free tax statusif supported by the owners club.


You cannot change a VIN number without a letter of authorisation from the DVLA, and then you wouldn't change it, you would stamp a new one. If you build a car on a shell with a VIN number, and don't have enough parts to retain the identity, it gets a Q plate, which is what would happen if the V5 came only with the shell, you would need the engine as well. (Strictly a lot of other parts, but these don't have numbers on)

Joe_Horner

vaio wrote: »

I didn't think the rules for identity on rebuilt cars specified new or previously unused shells, got a link to that particular law?

The big problem with ringing a stolen car is you still end up with a stolen engine number, try and get that changed on the V5 and you'll have plod at your door PDQ

Not going to hunt down the legislation, but if you're interested you could start from the DVLA guidance here on rebuilt cars:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kit-cars-and-rebuilds

Note that, to retain the original registration, you need the original bodyshell or a new one of the same specification. This has been confirmed countless times to mean "new unused" rather than simply "new to this car" - once a shell has a VIN assigned to it, that's it's VIN for life.

As for engine numbers, they're no trouble at all. DVLA won't notice if you notify a change to a "stolen" one because they don't keep records in a suitable way to flag it up.

Besides, a huge number of older cars don't have engines that match their V5 anyway because people have changed them in the past (engine from a scrappy) and not bothered with the paperwork - in my yonger days it was almost a novelty to buy a car and find the engine and V5 agreed! So that "stolen" engine was obviously in there when you bought it and someone didn't update the records.

Or, if you're really that bothered, grind the number off, re-stamp and "weather" it a bit - takes minutes to do.

forgotmyname

You need so many points to be able to retain the original vehicles details.

I forget what they are not but say 10 points. so many for the chassis and so many for the engine/gearbox.

Just having a V5C doesnt create enough points. The only use if for dodgy means.

New identity for a stolen car or create a car that does not exist.