Interfaith marriages-do they work?

duchy

I think you're giving Torry a lot more credit for proper thought and education than her level of knowledge and standard of beliefs illustrate. Perhaps you've not read some of her posts on other threads though. She is not "an educated Christian" . I wouldn't engage her in religious debate simply because of this. She dismisses whole swathes of the population because they do not worship as she does. *MY* Jesus taught love of fellow man and respect for all-I think she missed those bits judging by her posts.

esmerelda98 wrote: »

It is clear that you think you know a lot about Christianity and Christians, but the many of the views Torry Quine holds are just basic Christian belief, nothing controversial.

Torry Quine did not say the Old Testament was irrelevant to Christians. She did suggest that Old Testament law, and the living a life bound by all the minute laws set out in the Old Testament is not what Christianity is about.

The whole point of Jesus' death on the Cross was a one-time, ultimate sacrifice. The Jews in the Old Testament were continually having to sacrifice an unblemished lamb as part of the process of asking for forgiveness because they were constantly breaking one law or another on account of their (our) human frailty. Jesus' death on the Cross did away with all that, and Christians believe that it freed them from 'the law', that way of life that involves trying to obey gazillions of laws on every aspect of life.

The basic prayer that people say when they become a Christian involves accepting that you are a sinner and that salvation comes through believing in Jesus, not through following any laws to perfection (though the Old Testament is ample proof that even with the best will in the world that is impossible), or through good deeds. It is a stark message, but there you are, it is the basic Christian message.

I believe (my personal belief), is that God gave the Jews the law and many years to try to follow it to prove to all that it is impossible to live by.

Now I know many of you believe this sort of belief is only held by those with a sub-normal IQ. Of course you can believe what you like. It is clear that many Chrisitians are professional people, holding significant appointments in society at large. It is not a question of intelligence.

margaretclare

I think the main problem is: some faiths are a lot less tolerant than are others. It has been said that Christians should be tolerant of others. I think that Christians are a lot more tolerant than some.

In Islam, they expect the non-Muslim partner to convert. Once converted, there is no going back. Children are assumed to be Muslim from the start. Any Muslim who wants to convert out is deemed to be an apostate, which can be punishable by death.

In Judaism, it's something you're born into, down the maternal line, so can't change from. 'Marrying out' is a heinous sin i.e. marrying a non-Jew. In some very devout families they treat it as death and can go through the whole bereavement and grieving process, before never mentioning the name again.

DH was brought up as a Jew, his brother calls himself a 'secular ethnic Jew'. However, DH chose to be a Christian. He says he's 'always been a believer', way way back, he doesn't know for how long. He chose to go into school assembly when he could have stayed outside, and he learned the basics of Christianity like the Lord's Prayer. He was baptised and confirmed in his 70th year. There are still cousins who refuse to speak to him.

kacie

My OH is, for lack of a better way of expressing it, a lot like Torry, very set in his views, whereas I'm a more relaxed Christian, it's not always easy between us despite the same faith. Often we have to not talk about religion as our views on it are so different.

Treevo

lostinrates wrote: »

The two don't actually go hand in hand, people other than Christians live in America!

I've been lucky enough to meet a fair few accepting religious people, just as you describe...people who are not as closed minded to think that unless one does like them one is not Christian or 'good'. Met plenty of the other sort too mind you...but I consider it an issue of personal limitation.

You try telling people outside of the New York or LA that you're atheist - probably won't end well. That's what I mean by 'Christian'.

lostinrates

margaretclare wrote: »

I think the main problem is: some faiths are a lot less tolerant than are others. It has been said that Christians should be tolerant of others. I think that Christians are a lot more tolerant than some.

In Islam, they expect the non-Muslim partner to convert. Once converted, there is no going back. Children are assumed to be Muslim from the start. Any Muslim who wants to convert out is deemed to be an apostate, which can be punishable by death.

In Judaism, it's something you're born into, down the maternal line, so can't change from. 'Marrying out' is a heinous sin i.e. marrying a non-Jew. In some very devout families they treat it as death and can go through the whole bereavement and grieving process, before never mentioning the name again.

DH was brought up as a Jew, his brother calls himself a 'secular ethnic Jew'. However, DH chose to be a Christian. He says he's 'always been a believer', way way back, he doesn't know for how long. He chose to go into school assembly when he could have stayed outside, and he learned the basics of Christianity like the Lord's Prayer. He was baptised and confirmed in his 70th year. There are still cousins who refuse to speak to him.

And there are Christians who are the same, fewer and further bewteen, i grant you, but they exist. And Jews who are tolerant.....and even Jews and Muslims who are friends...imagine such a thing.....its shocking eh,

And Judaism is not the only religion which expects a maternal line to be followed...

The problem is that people are bringing a lot of bigotry based on (real) experiences of bigotry to the table. There are bigots in all faiths and of no faith. There are people who are able to be all embracing in all faiths and of no faith, And those are the people I aspire to be more like (I fail, but I want to be more like. ).

lostinrates

Treevo wrote: »

You try telling people outside of the New York or LA that you're atheist - probably won't end well. That's what I mean by 'Christian'.

I've never lived in NY, and knew plenty of agnostics and atheists in US (nd other non christians). Bil has just moved to a new place (neither la nor ny nor anywhere like, bit of a culture shock) and is having no problems.

(Edit, sorry, went off line in the middle off that)

Anyway, my experience in US is first hand, not as a tourist and spans well, a long time, though not recent years. None of it is NY based, (though my in laws live in NYC) some is LA based, but I am mainly thinking of normal us. My experience, even more shocking , is mainly in the southern states. Yep, even there, the heathen non Christian exists.

ostrichnomore_2

Whether it works or not depends on the individuals, their expectations, and their tolerance/compliance with each others beliefs.

I know of interfaith marriages that work, and I know of one religious/atheist marriage that works.

In my own experience though, as an atheist whose ex was Christian, I wouldn't try it again and I was relieved to find new man shares my views. It makes things much easier.

Ex, unfortunately, never really accepted my views it now turns out. Well, couldn't live with them in the end, after 10 years he ran off to a 'Christian' woman after having an affair with her for two years, and one of several reasons he gave was wanting to be in a Christian environment and share church activities etc with his partner. :mad: !!!!. And it's effected my previously tolerant view of religion (each to their own) very badly.

A big part of the problem was that his brand of Christianity teaches man is the head of the household, woman is his helper blah blah, bollox to that and it caused nothing but trouble from the start.

LMac

Im atheist (as are my parents, though one was raised protestant, one catholic) DP was raised catholic, and identifies as such, but has not attended other than for funerals, since we met. He has never spoke of his faith at all and speaks often of the flaws in the church.

However, Im now expecting our first child together and he is insisting on a christening. I was gobsmacked. As I understand it, its about promising in front of his god, and a room full of people that we raise the child in the church/believing in god. I am opposed to making this promise in principle (though will likely let him get on with it, and Ill stand there while he promises it) I think he wants to do it because its a tradition in his family. We currently live in a Protestant area in N. Ireland, so its not even part of the culture where our kids will be raised.

Buttonmoons

My ex (daughter's father) was raised muslim, as his mother is (father not), but it was more just restrictions such as no pork, participate in eid etc. He isn't religious at all now (though is a £%£$) and his sister is Christian.
I suppose I'm indifferent to religion, doesn't bother me unless someone is trying to force their views on me, although I do like hearing others perspectives, hence why I will happily natter to the Jehovahs at the door and take their pamphlet, but from the start I tell them I wont be attending their church.


My daughter is 7, and she HATES the idea of God, I haven't a clue why to be honest! It's not even been much of a conversation in our home, she knows her Gran believe in Allah, and she sees her pray and whatnot, and has always seen it, so it's not something new. But she pretty much got herself evicted from the girls brigade at 5 by refusing to believe their stories from the bible, and informing the old dears running the club that Noah and the ark story was "ridicuuuulious" and you can't fit whales on a boat. Maybe we have watched too much discovery channel :rotfl: She won't sing in assembly if it's about God and she won't let me sign the permission slip for church at Xmas etc - I used to be in the church choir even though I never have believed - so I'm really not sure why she is totally against it!

I could actually see her having problems being in a reletionship with someone who was involved with religion - IE someone who actually attends church, not someone who says they are, but doesn't actually live by any of the beliefs or have much interest in it.

duchy

This is very personal to me so I'm going to address it from a very personal viewpoint.

My parents were for want of a better word -soulmates. They met as adults and fell deeply in love. She was Irish Catholic, He was second generation Lithuanian Jewish. Both came from large and very close families. Both familes practised their religions -and could be called devout.

Both were devestated at the thought of my parent's potential union.

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I agree with this. I think if you are serious about your faith and practise it, then I don't see how you could chose to get married to someone else of a different religion who also took it seriously who also wanted to practise their faith. It's what underpins your life, so how could you have the same direction to walk in? How could you even get close enough to even talk about marriage? You have not got the most important thing in your life in common, it's a recipe for disaster from the start.

I think if neither of you particularly cares about your faith it can work.

(I'm not talking about different denominations of Christianity here - that CAN and does work - but different religions altogether).

My husband and I were both atheists when we married and are both practising Christians now.

I wrote a huge reply to this -My parents went through hell because both their religions disapproved of their union -I wrote about how it impacted on them. They had a wonderful marriage blighted by the guilt they felt because of family disapproval (and estrangement - my Grandmother died still not speaking to my Mother). The bigotry was on both sides not just Christian or Jewish . I wrote about the pain it caused them and how it felt to grow up as a child with a foot in both camps.

My own beliefs (I follow a Christian faith but have no time for Catholicism after the way the Irish Catholic church of the early 60s treated my Mother-) were definitely coloured by seeing the pain bigotry caused my parents who were both brought up to be devout. Despite the horrible treatment we were raised with respect for both religions but encouraged to make our own choices. Ironically our parents would have been pleased if we had chosen one of their religions.
My brother rejected religion completely and I have my faith which I keep close and attend a church who respect all faiths and believe you teach love and tolerance by example not by bullying threats.

(The original was too long and too personally detailed)

I have studied the scriptures and MY God is one who loves all his children - not just the ones who turn up to worship once a week.
I don't recognise Him in Torry's description.