MSE News: Did you know 0844 numbers can cost double 0845 ones? Don't get fleeced by p

Ms_Chocaholic

I wish saynoto0870 had an app.

Ian01

Wywth wrote: »

Am I right? The government wants to ban traders from giving out (to consumers):
- 0845 numbers that cost 2.04ppm,
- 0870 numbers that cost 7.95ppm,

and force them to use instead:
- geographic numbers (or numbers that charge the same) that cost 7.95ppm,
- mobile numbers that cost up to 11.3ppm.

You're looking only at BT prices. You also need to consider other landline providers and the various mobile networks.

Most importantly, you need to think about this using the pricing regime that will be in place once Ofcom's "unbundled tariffs" system has been implemented. That new system will reveal the various hidden charges currently found within the price of a non-geographic telephone call.

The government wants to ban the use of:
- 0843/0844 numbers that impose a Service Charge of up to 7p/min on the caller,
- 0845 numbers that impose a 2p or 3p/min Service Charge on the caller,
- 0870 numbers that will shortly impose an approx 10p/min Service Charge on the caller,
- 0871/0872 numbers that impose a Service Charge of up to 13p/min on the caller,

for customer service lines and force them to use instead:
- geographic 01 and 02 numbers (these impose no Service Charge on the caller and are charged either at geographic rate or are inclusive within call plan allowances),
- mobile numbers (these are currently free to call from mobiles with inclusive call plans; by the time the BIS legislation takes full effect, Ofcom will have regulated the price of calls from landlines to mobiles such that they will have substantially reduced in price, perhaps to a level that facilitates these becoming inclusive calls within landline call packages),
- free numbers (although 080 numbers are currently free only from landlines, they will soon also be free calls from mobiles once Ofcom have enacted this), and
- non-geographic 03 numbers (these impose no Service Charge on the caller and are charged either at geographic rate or are inclusive within call plan allowances).

Wywth wrote: »

Or are 0845 & 0870 numbers going to be allowed to remain as they cost no more than a geographic number?

0845 numbers impose a 2p/min Service Charge on the caller. Having these calls within inclusive allowances is achieved only by your provider subsidising the Service Charge from the monthly call package price. These are exceptional cases and this situation will not continue.

Some landline phone networks are trying to keep up the pretence that these are somehow "cheap" calls, when in reality the pricing link with "local rate" was severed in 2004.

Compare the call costs when using a BT line to call both an 0845 number and an 01 or 02 number, with both calls being made outside the allowances of a call plan.

When you call the 01 or 02 number, you'll pay about 9p/min to access the network and make the call.

When calling the 0845 number you'll pay BT only 2p/min to access their network and make the call, as well as paying a Service Charge of around 2p/min within that call price. The Service Charge is collected from you and paid to the benefit of the business you are calling.

The prices are absurd. How can the call with a Service Charge be cheaper than the call without a Service Charge?

The answer is that the 0845 call price is currently regulated by a price cap, and the 01/02 "penalty charge" for calling 01 and 02 numbers out of plan is unregulated. In the last five years the unregulated charge has risen from around 4p/min in 2009 to more than 9p/min now.

The regulation imposed on BT's 084 and 087 call prices will shortly be lifted. You'll then be able to see the true situation that applies to these calls.

The call price for 0870 numbers currently does not include a Service Charge, as this was scrapped in 2009. Ofcom hoped it would lead to lower call prices. Some landline operators made these numbers inclusive. Mobile networks carried on charging high prices. In 2015, Ofcom will restore the Service Charge on 0870 and it will be about 10p/min. They will also allow revenue sharing again.

These changes will affect very few consumers because most companies with 0870 numbers already moved to 0844 numbers several years ago. Additionally, any company currently using an 084 or 087 number for customer service will shortly be required to swap to an 03 number, or to some other geographic-rate telephone number (01 or 02), or to a "free" number (080), under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Directive.

cookie365

fionajbanana wrote: »

I think its a disgrace that 0800 numbers are not free on mobiles - apart from Childline and another charity.

Some people only have a mobile and some companies have a 0800 number for customer services etc.

Thank goodness for Saynoto0870.com!

0800 (and 0500 and 0808) numbers are free on giffgaff

anni60

lee111s wrote: »

There's an iPhone app called weQ4u which is awesome. You put the number in you want to call and if it's in their system then they dial an 03 number which is free from your phone. Additionally, if you're put into a queue you press the buttons it advises and they call you back when you get through! There's only been one or 2 numbers that haven't worked in the 6 months I've had it. It also tells you how much you've saved, I'm up to over £50 now!!

I second this - I've been using the WeQ4u android app for several months and it has worked brilliantly :j

Ypaymore

If you dont have a android or i phone you can still use http://www.weq4u.co.uk/ from another mobile or landline even/

Just call 0333 5432111, and then the number you wish to reach. WeQ4U 03 calls are included in your inclusive minutes just like 01 or 02 calls, whether you use a landline or mobile phone.

wongawonga

Presumably the 0843/0844/0871/0872 numbers that MSE promote in the Intl and Uk Callcheckers to obtain cheap calls will still be allowed .

Ian01

Earthworm wrote: »

I don't get why more companies aren't being pressured to adopt 0300 numbers.

030 numbers are reserved for charities, health services and government.

Any business already using an 084 or 087 number can migrate to the matching 034 or 037 number by changing the first "8" to a "3".

Alternatively, businesses can use 033 numbers for new allocations.

Businesses are about to be encouraged to adopt 03 numbers on a mass scale. BIS has recently published draft legislation designed to protect consumers from the actions of rogue traders.

One of the provisions requires that customer service lines must use specific types of telephone number:
- 01 and 02 numbers,
- mobile numbers (not including 070 etc),
- 080 numbers,
- 03 numbers.

See section 39 (2) here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/226625/bis-13-1111-the-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-payments-regulations-2013.pdf


Be aware that various provisons surrounding:
- mobile numbers (reducing their termination rate so that it is on a parity with the landline termination rate - this will allow calls from landlines to mobiles to be included within call packages),
- 080 numbers (making them free from both landlines and mobiles), and
- 03 numbers (defining numbers with a Service Charge as "non-basic", and defining both geographic rate and inclusivity as "basic rate"),
have yet to be put into place by Ofcom.

Draft legislation for this is expected within a few months.

Earthworm wrote: »

It isn't as if networks are going to be quick to give 0800 calls free.

Ofcom are currently working to make 080 calls free from all landlines and mobiles.

There's a delay because, among other things, the mobile network EE is vigorously fighting those proposals.
EE wants to be allowed to continue charging up to 41p/min for "freephone" calls.

Earthworm

Ms_Chocaholic wrote: »

I wish saynoto0870 had an app.

They do... For Windows Phone
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-gb/store/app/saynoto0870/7ee20360-7204-e011-9264-00237de2db9e

I-LOV-MONEY

I have been in correspondence with my doctor's surgery for over two years (when they first introduced a 0844 number). I have been in correspondence with three Practice Managers.

I get fobbed off, with "cannot change the contract", "too busy", " we will look into it" .

I am now reporting it to NHS England.

oldharryrocks

I-LOV-MONEY wrote: »

I have been in correspondence with my doctor's surgery for over two years (when they first introduced a 0844 number). I have been in correspondence with three Practice Managers.

I get fobbed off, with "cannot change the contract", "too busy", " we will look into it" .

I am now reporting it to NHS England.

You might find this site helpful http://www.fairtelecoms.org.uk/use-of-084-numbers-in-the-nhs.html