Civil Recovery Fine from Sainsbury's solicitors - Advice needed urgently

somelondonchick

Hi

I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else and if anyone can advise.

My friend's son was recently accused of shoplifting in a Sainsbury's supermarket after forgetting to pay for some items in his basket. My friend's son can be quite absent-minded and has assured her that it was an oversight on his behalf. He is also a Sainsbury's employee so wouldn't be stupid enough to try to steal from one of his own stores.

He was questioned in-store but let go.

A few days later, he received a letter from DWF LLP saying they were solicitors acting on behalf of Sainsbury's saying that he had to pay a fine of £150.00.

The sum was broken down as follows:

Value of goods stolen £0.00
Value of gods damaged £0.00
Value of cash stolen £0.00
Security costs £150.00

Amount now due £150.00

There s a Q&A sheet attached to the letter saying that this is a 'civil recovery'.

My friend's son was told nothing of this when he was questioned in-store and he explained his error to them. There was clearly nothing taken as shown in the 'costs' but now they are saying that he owes for 'security costs'. How can that be when the security would have been working in-store at the time already anyway?

There is also no information in the letter on how he can appeal this decision and fine.

Has anyone ever come across something like this before? Can anyone offer any advice? Is Sainsbury's allowed to do this?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you

wealdroam

somelondonchick wrote: »

...now they are saying that he owes for 'security costs'. How can that be when the security would have been working in-store at the time already anyway?

Isn't that a bit like saying "Why do I need to buy a train ticket? The train is going to run whether I buy a ticket or not"?

This CAB guide may help:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_being_sued_because_of_shoplifting_or_stealing_e/a_business_takes_legal_action_against_you_to_recover_losses_for_theft.htm

CKhalvashi

My advice here would be that if it could cost him his job, just pay.

I am, however, not one to mess around when employment is concerned, especially of this nature (I am an employer).

If he was genuinely not guilty (theft/attempted is an absolute offence), then it may be worth challenging.

CK

bris

How exactly can you forget you have some items in your basket?

Sounds to me like he thought he would take a chance at a self serve till.

It's not like you can miss the few items, unless of course they were hiding under the cabbage.

In any case they did catch him and he didn't pay for the items, so now it's time to pay for the error of his ways.

unholyangel

wealdroam wrote: »

Isn't that a bit like saying "Why do I need to buy a train ticket? The train is going to run whether I buy a ticket or not"?

This CAB guide may help:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_being_sued_because_of_shoplifting_or_stealing_e/a_business_takes_legal_action_against_you_to_recover_losses_for_theft.htm

IMO its more like saying why do I need to pay £150 towards a ticket inspector when they would have been employed regardless.

In effect its no different to parking charge notices. They can't claim normal business costs (such as staff costs etc)as that is a normal business expense and not a loss that has specifically arisen due to a breach of contract.


However, what I dont understand from the OP is how he can forget to pay for items in his basket. Even at self service, if you forgot about items in your basket....they'd be left in the basket. For them to be in his bags/on his person when leaving the store...he'd have to remove them from said basket and either conceal them from the cashier or "forget" to scan them at self service and somehow not set off the weight trigger self service bagging areas have (and in my experience, they're sensitive....a loaf of bread thats slightly outside their normal margins will give a "unauthorised item in bagging area" message).

Money-Saving-King

unholyangel wrote: »

In effect its no different to parking charge notices. They can't claim normal business costs (such as staff costs etc)as that is a normal business expense and not a loss that has specifically arisen due to a breach of contract.

But then that would also involve management time, reviewing and double checking cctv footage. Management as well as security during the interview time. Why should that not be charged back?

OK people say the security is there anyway so not an extra cost. But when they actually have to do their job why not charge it back to the people "who forgot to pay for things" etc rather than a cost the rest of us have to absorb it through operating costs? I don't want to be paying for security so let the people who forget to pay for stuff do it!!!

THEY ARE NOT A NORMAL BUSINESS COST, THEY ARE THERE BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE "FORGET" TO PAY OTHERWISE KNOWN AS STEAL!!! If everyone else was normal "customer" in other words manages to pay for what they take out of the shop security need not exist. You cannot claim this is a normal business costs, it is there because some people are not normal and haven't got the hang of paying. To b****& right they should pay for it themselves!!!

To me it's tough luck if you "forget" to pay for things and then get a civil recovery bill. I don't want to have to pay the bill for someone to patrol a Supermarket just because some people "forget" to pay for things & why should i?!?!!!

marmitepotato

There's a notice on the doors of Sainsburys as you go in about prosecution and civil recovery. I can't remember how it's worded, but its something like they will always prosecute and actively recover losses through civil recovery.

halibut2209

wealdroam wrote: »

Isn't that a bit like saying "Why do I need to buy a train ticket? The train is going to run whether I buy a ticket or not"?

This CAB guide may help:

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_being_sued_because_of_shoplifting_or_stealing_e/a_business_takes_legal_action_against_you_to_recover_losses_for_theft.htm

No it's not. A company is only allowed to claim direct losses for any incident. It's the same with private car parks. This £150 is tantamount to a penalty, and if they do indeed use the word "fine", then this is completely unlawful

PILES

somelondonchick wrote: »

Hi

I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else and if anyone can advise.

My friend's son was recently accused of shoplifting in a Sainsbury's supermarket after forgetting to pay for some items :huh: in his basket. My friend's son can be quite absent-minded and has assured her that it was an oversight on his behalf. He is also a Sainsbury's employee so wouldn't be stupid enough to try to steal from one of his own stores.

He was questioned in-store but let go.

A few days later, he received a letter from DWF LLP saying they were solicitors acting on behalf of Sainsbury's saying that he had to pay a fine of £150.00.

The sum was broken down as follows:

Value of goods stolen £0.00
Value of gods damaged £0.00
Value of cash stolen £0.00
Security costs £150.00

Amount now due £150.00

There s a Q&A sheet attached to the letter saying that this is a 'civil recovery'.

My friend's son was told nothing of this when he was questioned in-store and he explained his error to them. There was clearly nothing taken as shown in the 'costs' but now they are saying that he owes for 'security costs'. How can that be when the security would have been working in-store at the time already anyway?

There is also no information in the letter on how he can appeal this decision and fine.

Has anyone ever come across something like this before? Can anyone offer any advice? Is Sainsbury's allowed to do this?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you

He's a thief end of.
I dont think though Sainsburys can pursue the charge as they are a normal business expense. The alternative could be a court appearance which is not good news. Pay the £150 and consider it a let off.

browneyedbazzi

It says something about the sad state of society when protecting your business from illegal activity and dealing with someone who is trying to steal from you is considered a 'normal business expense' by so many.

I don't think they should be able to charge a pre-determined sum for such matters (which is what £150 sounds like), but I do think they should be able to charge the offender for actual costs - such as the costs of the security guards while they were actually dealing with the offender.

I also don't buy the excuse that 'Oops, I forgot that was in my basket' defence....who (other than a shoplifter/thief) doesn't check that their basket/trolley is empty when going through checkouts?

MisterBrico

I must admit I accidentally ended up with something and not paying for it on the self service tills.

I scanned some alcohol then went to scan another item and dropped it in the bag, then it popped up with the over 18 warning and the employee cleared it and the over weight warning without me clocking it at the time and I continued. Wasn't until I left I realized what had happened.

However he has to ask himself if it is potentially worth his job even if he feels he does not owe it.