Now what?!!

Gingernutty

rozmister wrote: »

I live the harsh end AND I work in the sector - your experience whilst terrible and completely unacceptable does not represent the majority of social housing tenants.

Also plenty of new builds don't have social housing in them. Plenty have AFFORDABLE housing which can also mean Shared Ownership and FirstBuy. Section 106, the legislation that means SOME new developments have to have social housing as part of the development is ambiguous, whether there is social housing, affordable housing or some other kind of community focused provision made is decided by the local planning department before they give planning permission on a case by case basis. So your reluctance to buy ANY new build just in case you might end up next a anti -social social housing tenant (something you could check before you buy by looking at their Section 106 obligations) doesn't fit with the reality of the situation at all.

The problem with property anywhere is that if it's for sale, then anyone can buy. You only have to go the first couple of pages of the House Buying, Selling and Renting Forum to see the problems.

It doesn't have to be social housing for anti social tenants to show up. Buy to Let, Absentee landlords who don't care what's happening as long as the rent/housing benefit is paid are a major scourge around here.

Ames

But, if they're not up for long, that means that the disturbance isn't going on for long, surely?

I don't think that midday to 11pm is that unreasonable.

You said that you had problems with the last neighbours too - perhaps the fault isn't entirely with the neighbours?

FWIW, I live on one of the most deprived council estates in the country. It's gone downhill so much lately that I sometimes don't feel safe sitting outside in the middle of the day. Kids playing out or people playing loud music at reasonable hours don't bother me.

Gingernutty

Ames wrote: »

But, if they're not up for long, that means that the disturbance isn't going on for long, surely?

I don't think that midday to 11pm is that unreasonable.

You said that you had problems with the last neighbours too - perhaps the fault isn't entirely with the neighbours?

FWIW, I live on one of the most deprived council estates in the country. It's gone downhill so much lately that I sometimes don't feel safe sitting outside in the middle of the day. Kids playing out or people playing loud music at reasonable hours don't bother me.

The previous tenant was a single mother with two kids. The father and his clan were a bunch of crims who visited regularly and after dumping him, she took up with a family friend - a drug dealer.

The screaming rows, the psychotic dog that tried eating it's own pups (it got a couple of legs) and the police raids wore me down.

EDIT : She was finally evicted for non-payment of rent.

The privately rented house on the other side is owned by what was a somewhat naive new landlord.

He took on a teenaged couple who trashed the place, narked a shotgun wielding gang and left a 'guard' dog alone in the house which used the house as a toilet, before renting the house out to a single mother of two kids, who fell back into drugs, had her children (forcibly) removed, got back into prostitution, invited her 'mates' round to work from home, narked another gang who showed up in a car with false registration plates to cave all her front windows in and who had her front door caved in by the police twice.

The best bit was when the police called me one night on my ex-directory number, so that I could have a little listen to see if there was anyone in there before they raided the place.

The Polish family were a revelation.

You're right. They're not up for very long at all - if they left my house and stuff alone and stopped blowing the smoke in my direction, I wouldn't have an issue with them.

Dovah_diva

Ames wrote: »

I don't think that midday to 11pm is that unreasonable.

I do. Me and my husband have to get up at 4.45am to get to work. Therefore, we tend to be in bed at 10pm. If our neighbours and their kids were making the sort of noise the OP has described we'd be miserable, tired and unable to function properly at work due to lack of sleep.

Personally, I think 9pm is a reasonable time to stop making a racket and impinging on your neighbours lives.

FBaby

katiejones wrote: »

I have two children (7 and 11). They get up around 9 at the moment, have brekkie, get washed and changed. You can guarantee that a couple of their friends will be already knocking the door and they will be out into the street. There are 9 children in this street around the same ages and others that come up here to play. They eat lunch outside (front garden picnics). They have the scooters, bike, and badminton sets out. They come in for tea, and are then back out until bedtime. Usual practice here for the holidays and the weekends. (Sometimes there's even a water fight). No eggs, no graffiti - just fun xx

Just out of curiosity, what do YOU do during all this time? I assume they are not home alone? I know that kids can't be entertained all day long for 6 weeks, but surely holidays is about spending time together as a family? It does sometimes feel that the street becomes the local park for some families, just without having to get there and actually do look after the children or actually play with them.

paulineb_2

rozmister wrote: »

As someone who works in social housing and knows numerous anti-social behaviour officers in the sector across counties who are point of call for every complaint (valid or not, resolved or not) I can tell you that the proportion of tenants in social housing who are anti-social is a low %, a definite minority. The majority of people in social housing live happy normal peaceful lives just like the rest of us. The problem is not the amount of people being anti-social it's the sheer volume of anti-social behaviour one anti-social family can create. The same faces moving around creating the same problems and leaving carnage behind them, a small hardcore minority that spoil it for the majority. The idea that the majority of social housing tenants don't appreciate their home because it's not theirs is a damaging myth.

I agree with the statement that one anti social family can create a lot of issues, but seriously do other people need to join in? Ive spoken about my experiences elsewhere. Ive been in my flat 18 years, its in a hard to let area of town and as I wasnt priority for housing I had to take somewhere here or wait years for an allocation.

I recently had a run in with a downstairs neighbour, issues caused by him. I spoke to the anti social task force who took 3 weeks to turn up at my door with a police officer in tow and then said they were reporting me, because Im waiting for a repair to my kitchen and had to clear the contents out and put them elsewhere, that meant that according to miss officious jobsworth, my home was a health hazard (its not).

Anyway, after I had finished speaking to the housing about the way she behaved, I typed them an outline of some of the things Ive had to put up with over the years (some of which they already know) and yes most of the issues came from one anti social family, but this anti social family were allowed to create merry hell, her and the kids. But because she was deemed vulnerable, she had 6 kids and couldnt cope with them, they did nothing about her.

It took 15 years for her to get a written warning for harassing me and harassing one other family so badly that they moved out.

I do appreciate my home, but believe me, it has sorely wavered in years gone by due to the fact that some tenants here got doing what they like (think partying, drug dealing, leaving the closes looking like a skip, setting fire to toys left on the landing) and no action was taken against them and people like me who are peaceful, well, we got treated exactly the same.

Im sure there are far more anti social people than just her family, in fact I know there are, but the scheme I live in is spread out enough that the people who upset you tend to be in yours, or the next block.

People shouldnt be allowed to spoil it for the majority, thats my view. But they are.

Oh and the family who made mine and other peoples lives a misery were rehoused, as I presume she would have been overcrowded, she'll be making someone elses life a misery elsewhere, the problem just moves when the family moves.

FBaby

It's not kids being out playing at 8.30am that bothers me, it's kids shouting OIIII GIVE THAT BACK TO ME NOWWWWWWW at the top of their lungs and their own parents are apparently deaf to it.

They are not deaf to it, it is just a blessing for them that they are outside rather than doing that shouting right next to them.

paulineb_2

tinkerbell28 wrote: »

This actually puts the fear of god into me. I'm not a snob, I have lived in social housing in years gone past.

We are looking to buy and are purposely avoiding new builds so I don't have to mix with people like this. I spent 8 months in a place like it and had to install CCTV.

The type who leave dog !!!!!! on your doorstep and party until all hours in the garden because they don't have to get up for work. With the HA doing nothing and they didn't care, wasn't their house.

Not everyone is like it, and people do work hard to get themselves out, set an example. A high % don't IMO.

Ive lived in council housing all my life. My mum lives in a better area than me, she owns her house now, but she rented it when I was growing up.

However, Id just like to say that even with the experiences Ive had, you can get anti social tenants anywhere. Not everyone who lives in council or housing association property will be unemployed and not everyone who lives in better areas will be decent neighbours.

My mum is having some real issues with one of her neighbours, hes a middle class ex RAF officer, but hes making her life a misery.

You can do anything with your life and make it a decent life even if you live in the worst housing estate. I worked full time for over 15 years, I studied for a post grad while I was living here (and Im still here).

I didnt grow up in a bad area, I just ended up in one because of the lack of availablity of social housing in my area. Also, I do understand the reasons why some people are anti social.
You see kids who arent being parented properly, kids with no discipline, parents who dont care much about them.

I could look at the 6 kids of my very anti social neighbour and wonder what their life would be like, because the two older boys are already pretty much out of control and that doesnt mean they need to be written off.

But if you let kids do exactly what they like and that does include making peoples lives a misery (Im not just talking about name calling), its hardly surprising that a lot of these kids will grow up and repeat the behaviour of the parents.

The bottom line is though, no one needs to be anti social. Im not.
Its not the area I live in that makes me anti social or not, its the fact that I was brought up to respect myself and to respect other people as well. Regardless of how much money I have or whether Im in work or out of work.

paulineb_2

The issue as far as I can see it with the OP isnt just about the kids, its about the behaviour of the parents as well

I really dont know what to advise OP, because everyones tolerance levels are different. Id say Ive tolerated much much more over the years than I should have had to

But from a personal perspective, theres only so much that certain agencies can do about anti social behaviour, particularly if you dont have a witness.

The anti social task force in my area cant and wont take action unless you have someone to witness events or unless you have contacted police and got a crime number.

Housing officers in my area have never done very much and the police, their powers are limited and often you end up shuttling between police, housing with each saying its the other ones issue.

Task force in my area do offer mediation, but theres also the problem of if you make a formal complaint about someone, its very likely that the person you complain about will know its you and matters might escalate

I also do think as other people have suggested that some of this is just typical kids behaviour, but you should have the right to live in peace, I certainly dont expect to be living in deadly silence 24/7

But some families do allow their kids to play out and the kids dont end up causing problems for other families.

Think you need to start keeping a diary and taking it from there.

Loz01

FBaby wrote: »

They are not deaf to it, it is just a blessing for them that they are outside rather than doing that shouting right next to them.

But they never get told to quieten down!! :eek: Im not expecting a silent life but kids swearing and adults swearing back at them isn't my idea of fun. Roll on when school starts and the sun isn't up til 10pm so they actually have to go in their own houses for more than a second