Arriva Fare Evasion

Stigy

esuhl wrote: »

I mean... what if the ticket machine was only accepting pennies and there was no other alternative. Would you be expected to pay for your £150 train ticket to the other side of the country using 15,000 penny coins to avoid any risk of prosecution...?

No, because over 20p in copper isn't legal tender. It is however reasonable for a TOC to say they don't accept a certain type of debit card, such as Electron for example. If the Ticket Machine normally accepts your type of card but wasn't on this occasion, and that's your only method of payment, where technically I suppose you should make alternative arrangements. If you were penalised because of this you'd have a strong appeals case and I'd like to think common sense would prevail on the staff member's part, as long as there wasn't evidence to suggest that intent to avoid payment was present.

timbo58

esuhl wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that isn't right.

It IS right. You must have an acceptable form of payment for the service and purchase the ticket before travel.

As Stigy just said (above) if your mate had a means of payment that had been accepted at that station/any station before which now wasn't being accepted for any reason then make an approach to the TOC and see if they will accept that, although the barrier staff should have known if there were any irregularities regarding ticket machines/offices en route so I suspect the card he wanted to sue was one that simply wasn't accepted by the ToC (as also said above).

alinwales

I once couldn't get a ticket at our local station because it was cash only because the card reader was faulty. I couldn't pay cash as I didn't have enough. I either got a ticket on the train or at the arrival station, I can't remember which it was, with no problems. However, I do know that my departure station is not a penalty fare station because it only has a part time office and no automated machines (yet..).

esuhl

Stigy wrote: »

No, because over 20p in copper isn't legal tender.

What's that got to do with anything? We're talking about train tickets here -- not settling court debts.

timbo58 wrote: »

It IS right. You must have an acceptable form of payment for the service and purchase the ticket before travel.

But he did have an acceptable form of payment -- he had cash and the ticket machine wouldn't accept it. And you don't need to buy a ticket before you travel unless there are facilities to do so, which there weren't if the OP's friend wanted to pay by cash.

Are you seriously saying that anyone who doesn't have a credit/debit card is effectively banned from public transport because they can't offer multiple ways to pay?! Why isn't cash good enough?

timbo58

If the TOC who runs the station normally takes cash at this machine (etc) and it didn't on that occasion then the machine would have recorded that fact so it's worth contacting the Toc to get the prosecution stopped.

However The toc should have checked this before proceeding with any action, if they found the machine DID indeed accept all normal (i.e. normally provided for methods) payments then this was the 1st opportunity to pay, if it didn't they can then check if the train had any ticket purchasing facilities on it (i.e. a guard/conductor) if that is true then this would have been either the 1st or 2nd opportunity to pay.

IF the machine is checked and found it DIDN'T accept payments by an advertised means then this is permissible to allow for.
IF the train is checked and there were NO ticketing facilities either then his defence is solid and the prosecution will be dropped.

No one is seriously saying if you don't have a certain type of payment type you are banned and ticket machines usually accept debit/credit cards and cash as payment.
On your point of 'cash' per se, many places no longer accept cash here & abroad on automated systems -Petrol stations being one very good example.

It's all down to what types of payment are advertised as being available: it wouldn't surprise me if ticket machines stop taking cash at some time in the future in any case.
As another poster correctly points out there ARE some types of debit card which ticketing machines have never accepted (solo/electron) these are well advertised as being non -acceptable.

paddyrg

If your friend spends a fortune on train tickets between these stations, presumably he has a stack of old, used tickets for this route he can show in mitigation - especially if they're all tied back to his card. He can show he buys tickets all the time and was clearly not a habitual faredodger - appeal to their better side.

WiggyDiggyPoo

timbo58 wrote: »

........
As another poster correctly points out there ARE some types of debit card which ticketing machines have never accepted (solo/electron) these are well advertised as being non -acceptable.

Me!

Does anyone know why this is? Ive used the card ok at 3 types of 'fast' ticket machine, and on sites like trainline, without problems. But the card isn't accepted at the card payment machine on the ticket desk or the one the guards carry.

Ps Do you know where it is well advertised, I'd never heard of this before?

GwylimT

Your friend was clearly well aware that the ticket machine does not take cash as you have stated that he uses this service for work, which is also quite strange that he doesn't have a season ticket as they are more convenient and cheaper.

esuhl

GwylimT wrote: »

Your friend was clearly well aware that the ticket machine does not take cash as you have stated that he uses this service for work...

But that doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. He still had the right to pay by cash if he wanted to.

timbo58

WiggyDiggyPoo wrote: »

Me!

Does anyone know why this is? Ive used the card ok at 3 types of 'fast' ticket machine, and on sites like trainline, without problems. But the card isn't accepted at the card payment machine on the ticket desk or the one the guards carry.

Ps Do you know where it is well advertised, I'd never heard of this before?

It is advertised in my region ~(FGW)
It was mainly because switch solo and visa electron were aimed at the student market and therefore had to be checked that a balance was available for use before debit online.

i.e. if the system couldn't check the balance = more than the amount for the ticket it was rejected.