We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Arriva Fare Evasion
Options
Karloh
Posts: 31 Forumite
Hi all,
Looking for a bit of help & advice to do with alledged fare evasion on the Arriva network. My friend was certainly not trying to be a money saver with this one although they seem to think so!
Last month a friend of mine was boarding his now regular morning train for a job he recently started, on this occasion he was running late and was running towards the station as the train arrived in. This station has recently been fitted with a self-serve ticket machine and i'm aware / concerned they can argue he should have bought a ticket and waited for the next train. Although it's worth pointing out this ticket machine only accepts card and won't take cash, it'd surely be presumptious of them to assume everyone takes a credit or debit card everywhere with them?
On the train there was no sign of a conductor or an opportunity to buy tickets at this point.
He arrived at his destination which he knows to be a staffed station and made his way towards the queue to buy his ticket. Walking down the platform to the queue a woman came up to him flashing a name badge asking if he had a ticket, to which he politely advised no he hadn't yet, she asked him where he was travelling from which she then shouted over to another guy, then he spoke to him. There were 3 of them there in total, two out of the 3 staff spoke very poor english and all made him feel very intimidated. They then pointed out that he obviously needed a ticket and pointed him to the booth he was already heading towards. Once in the queue two of them then approached him while motioning to a new third person who brings a clipboard and removes him from the queue to take all his details and advise that he'll be receiving a letter.
The letter he has now received advises that he was spoken to by revenue protection staff for failing to produce a valid ticket and requesting a statement of events from him before it goes to a magistrates court (well, it says their prosecutions team is considering it). It also says they have evidence to warrant presecution.
Both stations are fitted with CCTV as the national rail website confirms, would it be worth asking them to review both sets of CCTV to see he actually had to run for the train and get on, and then once arrived attempted to buy a ticket from the office.
What really bothers me is he showed full intent to buying a ticket, he was making his way to buy one, he was told by on site staff to queue for one, and was in a queue to buy one when removed. What about all the people infront of him in this queue that didn't have a ticket but were allowed to buy one? Is it unreasonable to think that because he's young / looks the type that isn't going to defend himself that they chose to impose this on him? Between the encounter at the station between the many staff and this letter he's being wrongly made out to be a criminal which is absolutely not the case and couldn't be further from his character.
He spends a fortune on rail fare, regularly uses these two stations and has never been in ANY sort of trouble before with any railway company.
Does anyone have any advice of what he can do / what we can put in the statement letter?
Any and all help is really appreciated.
Thanks,
Karl
Looking for a bit of help & advice to do with alledged fare evasion on the Arriva network. My friend was certainly not trying to be a money saver with this one although they seem to think so!
Last month a friend of mine was boarding his now regular morning train for a job he recently started, on this occasion he was running late and was running towards the station as the train arrived in. This station has recently been fitted with a self-serve ticket machine and i'm aware / concerned they can argue he should have bought a ticket and waited for the next train. Although it's worth pointing out this ticket machine only accepts card and won't take cash, it'd surely be presumptious of them to assume everyone takes a credit or debit card everywhere with them?
On the train there was no sign of a conductor or an opportunity to buy tickets at this point.
He arrived at his destination which he knows to be a staffed station and made his way towards the queue to buy his ticket. Walking down the platform to the queue a woman came up to him flashing a name badge asking if he had a ticket, to which he politely advised no he hadn't yet, she asked him where he was travelling from which she then shouted over to another guy, then he spoke to him. There were 3 of them there in total, two out of the 3 staff spoke very poor english and all made him feel very intimidated. They then pointed out that he obviously needed a ticket and pointed him to the booth he was already heading towards. Once in the queue two of them then approached him while motioning to a new third person who brings a clipboard and removes him from the queue to take all his details and advise that he'll be receiving a letter.
The letter he has now received advises that he was spoken to by revenue protection staff for failing to produce a valid ticket and requesting a statement of events from him before it goes to a magistrates court (well, it says their prosecutions team is considering it). It also says they have evidence to warrant presecution.
Both stations are fitted with CCTV as the national rail website confirms, would it be worth asking them to review both sets of CCTV to see he actually had to run for the train and get on, and then once arrived attempted to buy a ticket from the office.
What really bothers me is he showed full intent to buying a ticket, he was making his way to buy one, he was told by on site staff to queue for one, and was in a queue to buy one when removed. What about all the people infront of him in this queue that didn't have a ticket but were allowed to buy one? Is it unreasonable to think that because he's young / looks the type that isn't going to defend himself that they chose to impose this on him? Between the encounter at the station between the many staff and this letter he's being wrongly made out to be a criminal which is absolutely not the case and couldn't be further from his character.
He spends a fortune on rail fare, regularly uses these two stations and has never been in ANY sort of trouble before with any railway company.
Does anyone have any advice of what he can do / what we can put in the statement letter?
Any and all help is really appreciated.
Thanks,
Karl
0
Comments
-
you don't say whather or not there is a staffed ticket office at the departure station.
Also worth noting that arriving at the departure station with no time to buy a ticket is not considered a good excuse of travelling without a ticket.
National Rail Conditions of Carriage say:
It goes on to give exceptions, like no ticket selling facility at the departure station, etc.2. Requirement to hold a ticket
Before you travel you must have a ticket or other authority to travel which is valid for the train(s) you intend to use and for the journey you intend to make.
Read that document for further details.0 -
Hi wealdroam - thanks for getting back to me.
The article there mentions a penalty fare being issued if a valid ticket isn't presented, any idea why the station didn't just do this instead of this legal action?
The departure station isn't staffed nor has a ticket office, the only facility is the self-serve ticket machine that only takes card and not cash.
I don't understand how he can be accused of fare evasion when arriving into a staffed station that you obviously can't get out of without showing a ticket and not being allowed to purchase one when he trys to.0 -
Hi wealdroam - thanks for getting back to me.
The article there mentions a penalty fare being issued if a valid ticket isn't presented, any idea why the station didn't just do this instead of this legal action?
The departure station isn't staffed nor has a ticket office, the only facility is the self-serve ticket machine that only takes card and not cash.
I don't understand how he can be accused of fare evasion when arriving into a staffed station that you obviously can't get out of without showing a ticket and not being allowed to purchase one when he trys to.
Best thing is for him to put it down to experience, for all the agro, I bet he just wished he waited for the next train. Cash is sort of going out of fashion, debit card or even some operators allow e-tickets
Arriva
I know in the past I have travelled on a train and my ticket was displayed on my mobile phone, I only had to show this to the train manager when requested.0 -
What is the departure station?Hi wealdroam - thanks for getting back to me.
The article there mentions a penalty fare being issued if a valid ticket isn't presented, any idea why the station didn't just do this instead of this legal action?
The departure station isn't staffed nor has a ticket office, the only facility is the self-serve ticket machine that only takes card and not cash.
I don't understand how he can be accused of fare evasion when arriving into a staffed station that you obviously can't get out of without showing a ticket and not being allowed to purchase one when he trys to.
Does your friend have a card he could've used in the ticket vending machine?
If so, I am afraid there is no excuse for travelling without a ticket, is there?
If he doesn't have a card then that is the point to push home... that there was no opportunity to buy a ticket earlier than joining the queue at the destination station.
Of course if he joined the queue holding a card to buy his ticket, then the RPI was right to pull him out of the queue... he clearly had a card that he could/should have used before departure.
The fact that he was running late and didn't have time to buy a ticket before departure is not a good excuse.
Penalty Fares are not issued everywhere... see condition 4.0 -
Departure station is Abercynon.
I would comfortably assume he carries his debit card with him, in this instance he didn't even arrive in the station with enough time to buy a ticket if he had it or not, just trying to draw some sort of defence against him being penalised for something he didn't intend to happen.0 -
I would imagine that he joined the queue to pay at the destination, but once the RPI saw that he was going to pay by card it was clear that he could've/should've paid at the machine at Abercynon so he was pulled out of the queue.I would comfortably assume he carries his debit card with him...
Read again the quote from NRCoC in my first reply.
That, unfortunately, was his first mistake.in this instance he didn't even arrive in the station with enough time to buy a ticket if he had it or not...
It is nobody else's fault but his that he did not allow time to buy his ticket at Abercynon.
Sorry, don't think he has any hope of getting out of this....just trying to draw some sort of defence against him being penalised for something he didn't intend to happen.
A tip for next time... join the queue at the destination with a £10 note in his hand.
0 -
I'll have to check if he had a card or cash or anything in his hand when queuing!0
-
No, no need to bother with that... that's just how he got caught (probably).I'll have to check if he had a card or cash or anything in his hand when queuing!
It really doesn't matter how he got caught.
His big mistake was travelling without a ticket when he had the opportunity to buy one.
If you want to check anything, check that he leaves more time before travelling to buy his ticket.0 -
one should never answer those leading questions asked by revenue inspectors. all there entitled to is a correct name and address
but the damage is done. get ur m8 to write a letter back to arriva stating how sorry/stupid theyve been and ask is there any way to keep this out of court by a one off settlement + admin costs. it will cost ur m8 but its better than a visit to a court/criminal record?
normally works as it increases profits for the greedy train company ie they get lot more wonga than taking ur m8 to courtFares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited0 -
I had a mate in a very similar situation. He went just one stop on the train but didn't have his card on him, walked off the train with his money already in hand to pay and got stopped by some jobsworths from the train company (in this case it was first transpennine or northern rail... i forget).
The whole thing ended up with him going to court, suffice to say the judge was not impressed and told the train company it was pathetic that they had taken the issue so far. The total fair in question... £2.20.
:doh:0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 351K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.6K Spending & Discounts
- 244K Work, Benefits & Business
- 598.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.9K Life & Family
- 257.3K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards