Arriva Fare Evasion

Stigy

sputty01 wrote: »

I had a mate in a very similar situation. He went just one stop on the train but didn't have his card on him, walked off the train with his money already in hand to pay and got stopped by some jobsworths from the train company (in this case it was first transpennine or northern rail... i forget).

The whole thing ended up with him going to court, suffice to say the judge was not impressed and told the train company it was pathetic that they had taken the issue so far. The total fair in question... £2.20.

:doh:

Some Magistrates/Judges are that way inclined and don't fully appreciate how these things work. What I would argue is that all the £2.20s mount up, if that was their reasoning for taking that attitude. Also, whether your friend liked it or not, s/he had committed an offence (assuming there was the facility to buy tickets before boarding, or no authority was given to travel without a ticket).

In cases where fare evasion is believed to have been committed as opposed to a Byelaw ticketing offence, the fare is irrelevant anyway, and the offender doesn't even have to have travelled, just the intent to avoid payment is enough to secure a conviction. People shouldn't take the cost of the ticket and assume that because it's a relatively small amount, that the TOC and it's staff are being jobsworths.

Tallaght

Ignorance is never an excuse.

esuhl

I'm pretty sure that your friend can't be fined if the machine did not accept cash. He might not have wanted to pay by debit/credit card. He can't be fined if he was unable to pay, despite best intentions.

I think that is the only reason that he should be able to get out of this situation.

Being late is no excuse. The train company might have a look at the CCTV, but only to reassure themselves that he was running for the train. If he was, he still needs a ticket and (were it not for the faulty ticket machine) should have had one. If he was found arriving in plenty of time and simply not buying a ticket, it would add even more weight to the argument to fine him (again, except for the fact that the machine was faulty).

Tallaght

A lot of train stations have card and cash machines.

ic

Karloh wrote: »

On the train there was no sign of a conductor or an opportunity to buy tickets at this point.

So who was operating the doors? Go to the back of the train and you'll find him. If you didn't see him during the journey, approach him on the platform - he'll be there watching everybody get off.

Being a regular commuter with an annual season ticket, I now have no sympathy for people that don't pay. I see the same people daily boarding the train at the opposite end to the conductor, in the hope they're not asked for a ticket, and they'll then disembark at unstaffed station and get away scot-free. I also see people hiding in the toilets from time to time.

Its good to see people getting hassled by "revenue protection staff" for not having tickets - they've no reason for not having them.

Southend1

ic wrote: »

So who was operating the doors?

Could well have been the driver operating the doors. Not saying that makes travel without a ticket ok, but there may not have been a guard.

timbo58

Unfortunately although he showed 'intent to pay' according to you by queueing it doesn't look like he had any chance not to at that point of the journey in any case, hence his willingness or not to queue at the destination is irrelevant.

The first opportunity to pay was not used (it doesn't matter what sort of payment it accepts, the fact it accepts payment and that payment is required before travel is enough I am afraid).

The second opportunity to pay was not used (there was a member of staff that could have been approached on the train, according to some of the respondents on here?) it is the ticketless passengers responsibility to find that person rather than the other way around contrary to popular belief.
If there wasn't then... meh, see below in any case....

The intent to pay or not doesn't need to be proved, since not having a ticket after having passed at least one opportunity to do so is a 'strict liability offence' i.e. just by being 'there' without a valid ticket the offence is caused and proven.

A passenger should always check that there is NOT any opportunity to pay (at all) at any station they join at before boarding, they should then actively seek out ticketing staff upon joining, only then have they areal chance of avoiding this sort of action.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

ic wrote: »

So who was operating the doors? Go to the back of the train and you'll find him. If you didn't see him during the journey, approach him on the platform - he'll be there watching everybody get off.

It is not a requirement to go find the guard to purchase a ticket. I'd say it was a good idea, but it is not a requirement.

esuhl

timbo58 wrote: »

The first opportunity to pay was not used (it doesn't matter what sort of payment it accepts, the fact it accepts payment and that payment is required before travel is enough I am afraid).

I'm pretty sure that isn't right. Are train travellers expected to have every possible denomination of cash, every variety of debit card, every credit card, a cheque book, some Euros, and maybe gold bullion just in case only one particular payment method is available from the station that they set off from...?

I mean... what if the ticket machine was only accepting pennies and there was no other alternative. Would you be expected to pay for your £150 train ticket to the other side of the country using 15,000 penny coins to avoid any risk of prosecution...?

WiggyDiggyPoo

Not all machines accept basic bank account cards

The Co Op Cash Minder, recommended on MSE, is not accepted in all card payment machines. The card machines used by all conductors on Northern Rail/Transpennine trains simply say declined when attempted to be used, and the same goes for the machines used at manned ticket offices at (confirmed) Leeds, Halifax and Bradford. Indeed at Leeds the last time I paid by card I was asked to sign for it rather than chip and PIN.

I mention this as although 99% of the time I'll have cash on me, there'll be that time where the fare is higher than what I have on me and I cannot buy a ticket - this has happened at Halifax where there is no cash machine. They have at least installed an automated ticket machine at that station since which does take my card.

To help the OP

Advise your mate to tell it like it is, apoligise for not knowing in advance his approach was illegal and take it on the chin. If he's lucky he will be charged the standard fare for his journey and he can chalk it down to experience. If he's unlucky however....