Redoing very small ensuite bathroom

keystone

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Focus on some again made up insults - none of the things you have quoted were even remotely directed at you.

Umm OK I'll stretch my imagination and accept that although you might understand that as they were made in posts replying to me then its reasonable to assume that the language used was in response to me. Oh hang oin a minute - weren't remotely directed at me huh? So who were they directed at then? Oh an BTW that childish little comment on another thread (ehich I'll deal with shortly) rather suggests to me that perhaps "weren't remotely directed" is just plain wriggling.

You are correct, need does not come into it, which is why precisely I put that a contractor does not NEED to add overheads onto his materials - they have the option not to and to suggest they need to is completely false. It appears you are agreeing with me!

Sometimes people might benefit from a visit to Specsavers and actually read what is written. No I am not agreeing with you for one minute.

Just because you take offense at some words does not make it offensive!

Actually I don't take offence at all and I'm going to withdraw something I wrote. I said upset - I really meant annoyed and I'm still annoyed. Might it occur to you that if you write something that somebody else construes as being offensive/upsetting/annoying than it might just be that you have expressed yourself not very well? Most gentlemen would apologise for inadvertently causing such a situation even if they didn't mean to.

Cheers

evoke

£4.5K for a full en-suite refurbishment with a decent suite sounds like a bargain.

I spent around £8K on a standard-sized bathroom refurb two years ago. The bathroom suite and cabinets, tiles, radiator, etc., were around £5.5K and the labour (including plywood, glue, silicone, etc) was £2.5K. The work took two weeks and included a full reskimming and painting of the walls and ceiling.

The fitter supplied around £500 worth of materials himself so his actual labour charge was was around £200 per day (10 days of two weeks).

somethingcorporate

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Suggesting that builders/fitters/tilers etc need to make a margin on materials is stupid, most of them will be more than happy to work with what you provide - which has always been the case with the ones I have used.

keystone wrote: »

That has got to be one of the most (seeing as how you used the word so will I) stupid and ignorant comments that I've ever read on these boards.

Since you seem to be quite belligerent in avoiding answering one key question I keep repeating I will make it really simple for you.

Does a tradesman need to add on a margin to materials? Does as in NEED i.e. have to - I have already linked you to a dictionary definition if you have a problem with understanding the words I used.

I suggest if you say they NEED to then it isn't me that is the stupid one. I've even helped you by highlighting the word need in my original post that you keep ignoring.

I'd suggest it is you twisting my meaning to suit yourself as you did in your original post, you've even gone on to say yourself you've used other peoples materials so evidently have had nothing to add a margin on to and somehow still survive...

If you get upset at something someone writes on here I suggest you report it if you have a problem with it - you're very sensitive.

Don't take it too seriously

I've reread a couple of your posts and you are still having trouble grasping the word need, please refer to my link to dictionary.com, it is quite helpful, really.

keystone

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Since you seem to be quite belligerent in avoiding answering one key question I keep repeating I will make it really simple for you.

Does a tradesman need to add on a margin to materials? Does as in NEED i.e. have to - I have already linked you to a dictionary definition if you have a problem with understanding the words I used.

I suggest if you say they NEED to then it isn't me that is the stupid one. I've even helped you by highlighting the word need in my original post that you keep ignoring.

Blah, blah, blah. Yadda, yadda, yadda. I've already answered the NEED at question [strike]once[/strike] twice and I have no intention of doing so again.

Are you going to deal with the insults situation as I have stated it and which is presently the issue or just continue to attempt to divert the thread back into an area that I have already addressed in order to avoid doing so?

............................... you've even gone on to say yourself you've used other peoples materials so evidently have had nothing to add a margin on to and somehow still survive.

First let me correct you on one thing. I said nothing about not adding a margin to ANY materials in my business model. I think I said (or if I didn't thats what I meant to say) I was quite happy for the client to buy big ticket items like his bathroom suite, kitchen cabinets, tiles etc etc direct. That is not the limit of materials in a job and those that I do buy for a job do attract a margin because they go though my books and its my business model to do so and my accountant insists that I do. The main advantage of the client buying the big stuff himself is that it keeps my turnover down so that I can trade below the VAT threshold thus saving the customer even more money and I also don't end up having to pay tax on the proceeds.

If you get upset at something someone writes on here I suggest you report it if you have a problem with it - you're very sensitive.

No I'm not sensitive at all - but I can be like a dog with a rabbit sometimes. You have childishly used quite unecessary insult as a crutch to support your tenuous and specious argument. As I have already said your argument itself is a different subject and would have remained so without the insults. All you need to do to end this conversation is either admit that you did mean it in which you kinda damn yourself and I suspect that is what you are trying to avoid doing or you say sorry I didn't mean it that way. Either way it will be done, it will be out of the way, end of conversation, subject closed. This is now the third opportunity I've given you to do so. It's your choice - people can draw their own conclusions if you continue to vacillate.

Don't take it too seriously

I'm not but as you continue to provide me with a target to prosecute almost by invitation then I don't see why I shouldn't avail myself of the opportunity.

I've reread a couple of your posts and you are still having trouble grasping the word need, please refer to my link to dictionary.com, it is quite helpful, really.

Nothing of the sort and please don't be so patronising. It doesn't become you.

Cheers

phoebe1989seb

OP, I can sympathise with your situation regarding trades letting you down and your inclination to instead go with the fitters used by your friend with the bathroom showroom. We're currently looking to have two shower rooms fitted in our period house - one is the former *family* bathroom and is of miniscule size by comparison to what families expect today, the other is in the location of the former (teensy) kitchen - and is almost directly below the other room so plumbing is in place for both rooms.

IMHO I think your quote sounds very good value for money and I'd be inclined to go for it if it was me.

Personally we've had one heck of a job to get plumbers to quote for the job/do any work at all, partly I believe due to the fact we're in a very rural area and moved here knowing no-one. Last year, when doing our main bathroom, being new to the area we employed a guy who was recommended by a mutual friend from outside the area. He was a right royal PITA - he was totally confounded when presented with good quality kit - Hans Grohe, V&B, Porcelanosa etc - and complained (in particular) about the 'German rubbish' He did the work, it looks ok, but it was a painful process.

Despite this - and the fact that he was the most untidy tradesman I've ever been unfortunate enough to meet, we thought we may have to get him back as all our other avenues led nowhere.......our heating engineer recommended a young guy, who then developed relationship issues and ran off to the West Country and another plumber recommended by a neighbour never came back with a quote - I think he too was scared by the type of product we are using, being more used to the cheap tat supplied by the big sheds However, when we contacted Mr Messy he didn't return our calls/texts.....

Then a few weeks ago our sparky - the most reliable person we've come across since starting this renovation project - suggested a plumber to us and, having visited the site he's just supplied the first (and only one we seem destined to get) quote for the two shower rooms - £4000 (give or take the odd £ or two) - this is for the labour only and doesn't include any plaster boarding or tiling as DH is doing this.

We've seen pics of his work, it looks very neat, he's used to working with higher-end products and as he's semi-retired (but only in his 50s) he can do the job when it's mutually convenient. The sanitary ware etc is a further £3000 for each room - that's half the retail price as we're getting that from a friend in the business

We were expecting his quote to be about that much tbh, and really think we're going to struggle to find anyone else that could even do the work - but looking at your quote OP I'm now concerned we'd be paying too much. We could cast the net wider, but many trades don't seem to want to venture out into *the sticks* and from experience those based (relatively) locally are likely to feel out of their depth......and might burger something up as a result.

So our dilemma, like yours, is to decide if it's better to pay a bit more but be confident of getting the job done professionally - or take a risk

Do hope you come back and let us know what you decided to do........

somethingcorporate

keystone wrote: »

Blah, blah, blah. Yadda, yadda, yadda. I've already answered the NEED at question [strike]once[/strike] twice and I have no intention of doing so again.

Are you going to deal with the insults situation as I have stated it and which is presently the issue or just continue to attempt to divert the thread back into an area that I have already addressed in order to avoid doing so?

First let me correct you on one thing. I said nothing about not adding a margin to ANY materials in my business model. I think I said (or if I didn't thats what I meant to say) I was quite happy for the client to buy big ticket items like his bathroom suite, kitchen cabinets, tiles etc etc direct. That is not the limit of materials in a job and those that I do buy for a job do attract a margin because they go though my books and its my business model to do so and my accountant insists that I do. The main advantage of the client buying the big stuff himself is that it keeps my turnover down so that I can trade below the VAT threshold thus saving the customer even more money and I also don't end up having to pay tax on the proceeds.

No I'm not sensitive at all - but I can be like a dog with a rabbit sometimes. You have childishly used quite unecessary insult as a crutch to support your tenuous and specious argument. As I have already said your argument itself is a different subject and would have remained so without the insults. All you need to do to end this conversation is either admit that you did mean it in which you kinda damn yourself and I suspect that is what you are trying to avoid doing or you say sorry I didn't mean it that way. Either way it will be done, it will be out of the way, end of conversation, subject closed. This is now the third opportunity I've given you to do so. It's your choice - people can draw their own conclusions if you continue to vacillate.

I'm not but as you continue to provide me with a target to prosecute almost by invitation then I don't see why I shouldn't avail myself of the opportunity.

Nothing of the sort and please don't be so patronising. It doesn't become you.

Cheers

TL;DR, you win. Sorry.

keystone

somethingcorporate wrote: »

TL;DR, you win.

Its not a question of winning. Its a question of taking responsibility for what you write.

Sorry.

See that wsn't difficult was it. Thank you.

BTW I suppose you didn't bother to read this either. You should it gives an illustration why it can be to your distinct advantage for the contractor to apply a material overhead.

Cheers

Cookies_Cockups

somethingcorporate wrote: »

I'd suggest it is incredibly expensive, I'd get another few quotes.

How many days do they say it will take? That looks like around 9-10 working days labour.

Materials again look obscene.

Just had an entire bathroom ripped out, toilet and sink replaced, new towel rail, underfloor heating, shower and bath panels replaced and tiled and the whole room re-tiled and it cost around £900 for labour and materials (excluding tiles) but using hardibacker on the floor and new tanking around the bath and took 4 days.

Suggesting that builders/fitters/tilers etc need to make a margin on materials is stupid, most of them will be more than happy to work with what you provide - which has always been the case with the ones I have used.

I'd confine this quote to the bin and get 3 from reliable, recommended tradespeople. Take your time and get someone in you can trust!

Where in the country are you?

I think this is very misleading. Were the tradesmen illegal immigrants or claiming benefits whilst working?
I fit kitchens and bathrooms for a living and I can tell you my labour rate is about the going rate for a skilled person @ £150 a day.

Also to do the work you have listed in 4 days - to do it properly - is not possible. There will always be somebody cheaper, and there are also a lot of idiots in this game.

I hope the tiles were correctly primed (not PVA!!) and fixed correctly if they are above head height.

I have just quoted a very similar job and my price comes to around £4,500 fully inclusive of everything.
Original poster - I think the price sounds about right, but please make sure you get references from previous customers.

keystone

Cookies_Cockups wrote: »

I think this is very misleading. Were the tradesmen illegal immigrants or claiming benefits whilst working?
I fit kitchens and bathrooms for a living and I can tell you my labour rate is about the going rate for a skilled person @ £150 a day.

Also to do the work you have listed in 4 days - to do it properly - is not possible. There will always be somebody cheaper, and there are also a lot of idiots in this game.

I hope the tiles were correctly primed (not PVA!!) and fixed correctly if they are above head height.

I have just quoted a very similar job and my price comes to around £4,500 fully inclusive of everything.
Original poster - I think the price sounds about right, but please make sure you get references from previous customers.

Quite. Expect an argument though.

Cheers

somethingcorporate

keystone wrote: »

Quite. Expect an argument though.

Cheers

I'll let this one lie.

Yes, they were an illegal immigrant that spoke absolutely no English...

Seriously, he was an excellent time-served tiler and absolutely great value for money. I should be thankful I live in a nice part of the country where you can still get quality for a reasonable price.

If someone wanted to charge me £4,500 to do a modestly sized en-suite they'd be shown the door so quick their feet wouldn't touch the floor. Just like a number of other rip-off traders that have had no business from me - like landscape gardeners wanting £8k+ to remodel a tiny courtyard that we had done for less than £2k in the end and the person wanting £10k for a slate re-roof that was patched up good as new for £500.

Still, I'd happily spend £4.5k of your money doing my other bathroom(s). Just because someone tells you it's "the price" doesn't necessarily mean it is so.

This is a money saving website and we should do our best to encourage posters to shop around as evidently better deals can be had. Bernie Ecclestone's daughter would be telling you should couldn't get change out of £1,000,000 for a bath, let alone re-tile her bathroom for under £5k.