Redoing very small ensuite bathroom

HopelessAtSaving

We are redoing a very small ensuite. There is barely enough room to stand and it contains a toilet, sink and shower only. I have a quote that the OH isn't happy about and thought I would check it here.

They want £975 for the following:
Low profile 900x900 tray and waste
900 Bifold door
GROHE 1000 shower
Concealed cistern
Villeroy and Boch onovo toilet and sink with tap
Then:
Towel rad 40 cm wide £80
Airflow extractor price ranges £35- £75
Mirror with lights and shaver socket £255

Tiles are Eagle polished tiles £854

Labour- full job
Inc paint ceiling £1,400

Skip £120

Lights x 3 new pull switch
all materials including plasterboard etc and adhesives £750 (:eek:)

So that's a total of an amazing £4500 and I don't know what to think.

I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks in advance!!

keystone

First of all you need three quotes for the same scope of work in order to be able to do a meaningfull comparison. So far you only have one. Get two more.

Size isn't usually relevant. Actually in your case it will be because if theres only just room to stand in it the there's precious little room to work in it so the job will actually take longer than a bigger room.

The suite and tiles cost will carry a margin for him. It has to or he will go out of business. Research purchasing these items yourself but be prepared for his labour costs to go up to offset the margin he has lost by you doing it that way. Otherwise he potentially makes a loss from a business perspective. Depends how his accounting is run.

Skip price is skip price I'm afraid.

You can easily get through £ 500 of general building materials in a bathroom. Might be a bit less for yours but it does sound like a complete stripout and start again so not far off. That would leave £ 250 for the lights - not a million miles away.

Labours probably about right too including sparky and spread.

Without a lot more detail I don't think there is a great deal to complain about here TBH.

The most important thing whatever else I or anybody else on here says is get those two additional quotes.

Cheers

HopelessAtSaving

Thank you for your detailed response. I am very nervous about house refurbishment.

The quote is from a friend who owns a bathroom place who reassures me that its a good quote. The fitter is employed by them.

We did arrange for alternative quotes but those appointments were cancelled at the last moment and I just want it done. I've just got the go ahead from my husband even though I've been waiting for a new ensuite for 8 years! The current one is a mess, with exposed pipe work and three different types of tiles, despite being very small. The shower wasnt sealed properly and there is a leak into the wall between the shower and bedroom, so the plaster is falling off in the bedroom too. I think the previous owners of the house did a quick job to sell the house.

What you said about little space to work in makes sense. We see adverts on tv for B&Q and VictoriaPlumb which indicate bathroom fittings are very cheap (probably at the expense of quality) and I think my DH is wondering why our quote is so much.

I might source a few items myself but its good to know we're in the right ball park.

Thank you so much!

somethingcorporate

I'd suggest it is incredibly expensive, I'd get another few quotes.

How many days do they say it will take? That looks like around 9-10 working days labour.

Materials again look obscene.

Just had an entire bathroom ripped out, toilet and sink replaced, new towel rail, underfloor heating, shower and bath panels replaced and tiled and the whole room re-tiled and it cost around £900 for labour and materials (excluding tiles) but using hardibacker on the floor and new tanking around the bath and took 4 days.

Suggesting that builders/fitters/tilers etc need to make a margin on materials is stupid, most of them will be more than happy to work with what you provide - which has always been the case with the ones I have used.

I'd confine this quote to the bin and get 3 from reliable, recommended tradespeople. Take your time and get someone in you can trust!

Where in the country are you?

andyhop

somethingcorporate wrote: »

I'd suggest it is incredibly expensive, I'd get another few quotes.

How many days do they say it will take? That looks like around 9-10 working days labour.

Materials again look obscene.

Just had an entire bathroom ripped out, toilet and sink replaced, new towel rail, underfloor heating, shower and bath panels replaced and tiled and the whole room re-tiled and it cost around £900 for labour and materials (excluding tiles) but using hardibacker on the floor and new tanking around the bath and took 4 days.

Suggesting that builders/fitters/tilers etc need to make a margin on materials is stupid, most of them will be more than happy to work with what you provide - which has always been the case with the ones I have used.

I'd confine this quote to the bin and get 3 from reliable, recommended tradespeople. Take your time and get someone in you can trust!

Where in the country are you?

Sounds slap dash!

Approx £400 in materials, most to to work to make a living and a little profit. For our full on refurbs we spend approx £900 on building materials. Walls back to brick, floor back to joists, ceiling back to rafters

The quote above seems more than reasonable, decent branded sanitary ware costs money. Labour seems about right and is on par with what I would charge

cddc

Most of it seems fair (site unseen of course)for what sounds like good quality product (not cheap Vici Plumb tat) but what caught my eye was the tiles. £854 for Chinese Polished Porcelain:eek:. Must be over £50 per sqm in a small ensuite for Chinese gear, not top quality Italian.

Eagle are one of the best of Chinese factories but still....I bet if you shop around you could easily find something just as good for half that.....;)

keystone

somethingcorporate wrote: »

Suggesting that builders/fitters/tilers etc need to make a margin on materials is stupid,

That has got to be one of the most (seeing as how you used the word so will I) stupid and ignorant comments that I've ever read on these boards. Have you never been involved in running a business? No of course you haven't. When you go into Starbucks (or wherever) for a coffee do they say to you thats 50p for the raw materials, £1 for cover business overheads and £ 1 labour for making it? Of course not. By your argument you will say "No I'll only give you £1.50 because its stupid to think that I should cover your overheads". Totally absurd.

most of them will be more than happy to work with what you provide - which has always been the case with the ones I have used.

Yes thats absolutely correct. You provide the suite and the tiles and I'll do the rest. I did sugegst that as an alternative to remove that responsibility from the contractor and thus save some money. No problem. My business model is actually based on that premise. But you don't dictate what tiling adhesive etc that I use and I supply it. You want the finished product guaranteed thats the way it works.

BUT in this case the contractor has given his pricing based on him supplying the whole lot. For your education here's how that works:

The contractor will have arrived at whatever balance of competitiveness and net income works for him. If he's trousering large amounts of excess money, no matter how charged for, he'll eventually run out of work. If he's not banking enough to pay his bills eventually he'll go bust.

So if he's in equilibrium, his mix of earnings will be so-much from labour and so-much from markup, if you deny him the latter he will simply increase the former - he will have no choice in the matter if he wants to stay in business.

So overall you could be paying more, as you could well have materials at a higher base price than he would have paid, plus his displaced markup anyway. Funny how most businesses work this way. Simples.

No OP don't bin this quote. Its a benchmark against which to measure the others I've already suggested you get (although I do note you have tried but not yet been able to get some.)

As for the rest Andy has already addressed it.

Cheers

HopelessAtSaving

andyhop wrote: »

Sounds slap dash!

Approx £400 in materials, most to to work to make a living and a little profit. For our full on refurbs we spend approx £900 on building materials. Walls back to brick, floor back to joists, ceiling back to rafters

The quote above seems more than reasonable, decent branded sanitary ware costs money. Labour seems about right and is on par with what I would charge

I agree that £900 for all labour and materials is ridiculously cheap. We are in the Midlands.

Job should take 5 days. I deliberately mentioned the brand of sanitary ware so that you would know its quality. Our house is a five bed detached 1930s property. It has character and a cheap ensuite would not look right.

I can look around for tiles elsewhere, I had no idea it was Chinese rather than Italian, of course Italian would be preferable if its the same or cheaper.

andyhop

HopelessAtSaving wrote: »

I agree that £900 for all labour and materials is ridiculously cheap. We are in the Midlands.

Job should take 5 days. I deliberately mentioned the brand of sanitary ware so that you would know its quality. Our house is a five bed detached 1930s property. It has character and a cheap ensuite would not look right.

I can look around for tiles elsewhere, I had no idea it was Chinese rather than Italian, of course Italian would be preferable if its the same or cheaper.

Eagle polished porcelain are still fairly decent, we have done hundreds of sqm with no issues on 2mm grout lines, all consistent, all perfectly flat

Compare them to the likes of atlas concorde @£80sqm and from a fixers point of view there is little or no difference in fixings or looks

keystone

HopelessAtSaving wrote: »

Job should take 5 days.

But how many man-days if it includes plastering and electrics. No room for more than one person in that space at one time. I've got a fiver says it will overrun your 5 elapsed days. But the labour total remains IMO about right for the job irrespective of elapsed time.

I can look around for tiles elsewhere, I had no idea it was Chinese rather than Italian, of course Italian would be preferable if its the same or cheaper.

CDDC makes a valid point here on the tiles and I have to say I missed the name last night but having said that then not everything that comes out of china is tat. It would be right to shop around and one measure you can have of this guy is that having found the tiles you would like then ask him to quote them as an alternative. You then have two prices (the one you've got and the one he will give you) for that item. You can easily price the sanitaryware etc yourself too so you will know what margin he has applied. Its up to you to decide if its reasonable and if he wasn't happy with you knowing it then he wouldn't have given you that item price.

Do try and get those alternative quotes though for exatcly the same scope of work. Someone else huffing and puffing that they only paid £900 for theirs is really no help to you at all.

Good luck with it.

Cheers

HopelessAtSaving

I hope it wont take much longer than 5 days but we always get quoted for the whole job irrespective of time taken so if it overruns, it won't cost extra.

Regarding tiles, I wanted large tiles to minimise grout lines, husband wanted natural stone/marble appearance as he felt they would not date easily, and obviously they need to be light coloured as room is small and need to maximise appearance of light/space.

I understand the Eagle tiles need to be sealed post installation and then every few months after? What's your experience? I'm not the best at maintenance and would prefer tiles as fuss free as possible. Are there any others you can recommend with a similar look?