Prayers

VestanPance

The_Hurricane wrote: »

My point is that there are idiots on both sides.

I wouldn't say Lance is an idiot. A drug cheat yes, and one that will attempt to crush anyone in his way most certainly yes.

Although unlike the god delusion, Lances drug program can be most definitely be shown to work.

sassyblue

Delree wrote: »

It boils my blood when people put medical successes, especially those against the odds, down to their prayers and god. Don't worry about the dedicated and highly skilled professionals who worked hard to save someone they didn't know. Don't worry about the decades of medical science that took place to get humanity to the point where it can defeat terrible diseases and disorders. No no no. It was prayer and god.

kingfisherblue did say "He and the rest of the hospital staff saved my son's life, for which I will be eternally in their debt." but you chose to ignore that in your rant.....

This would have been an interesting thread but for those ranting about religion and God. :wall:

Person_one

sassyblue wrote: »

This would have been an interesting thread but for those ranting about religion and God. :wall:

Well, that's what the threads about...

supersaver2

sassyblue wrote: »

kingfisherblue did say "He and the rest of the hospital staff saved my son's life, for which I will be eternally in their debt." but you chose to ignore that in your rant.....

This would have been an interesting thread but for those ranting about religion and God. :wall:

Perhaps Delree wasn't referring to kingfisherblue's post seeing as they didn't quote it or even mention it! Perhaps they were just talking in general.

sassyblue

supersaver2 wrote: »

Perhaps Delree wasn't referring to kingfisherblue's post seeing as they didn't quote it or even mention it! Perhaps they were just talking in general.

I doubt it but it's a good excuse.

sassyblue

Person_one wrote: »

Well, that's what the threads about...

Not really, it's about praying and whether those prayers work. I don't think you have to believe in God to pray (but thats a whole new argument for others to poo poo ).

Praying to me is like sending compassionate wishes to someone, no God required.

VestanPance

sassyblue wrote: »

Not really, it's about praying and whether those prayers work. I don't think you have to believe in God to pray (but thats a whole new argument for others to poo poo ).

Praying to me is like sending compassionate wishes to someone, no God required.

Using the above context that you are praying, but not to a god. Then obviously it does nothing and any positive/negative outcome is purely coincidental.

Plus if you don't believe in god you're not praying, just talking to yourself!

peachyprice

sassyblue wrote: »

Not really, it's about praying and whether those prayers work. I don't think you have to believe in God to pray (but thats a whole new argument for others to poo poo ).

Praying to me is like sending compassionate wishes to someone, no God required.

Nope, praying definitely needs a god, it's the meaning of the word, otherwise it's just wishing.

onlyroz

Tropez wrote: »

That would be this - http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Yes, that's the study I was thinking of. There is also some more interesting information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercessory_prayer

It's interesting that the Church have largely tried to ignore studies like this. I imagine it would have been different if the study had come out in favour of prayer. Wouldn't it have been amazing for the Church if they could proclaim categorical proof of the efficacy of prayer? As it stands, it seems like congregations are at best wasting their time praying for successful outcomes of surgery etc, and might even be having a detrimental effect on their intended subjects.

VestanPance

onlyroz wrote: »

Yes, that's the study I was thinking of. There is also some more interesting information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercession
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_on_intercessory_prayer

It's interesting that the Church have largely tried to ignore studies like this. I imagine it would have been different if the study had come out in favour of prayer. Wouldn't it have been amazing for the Church if they could proclaim categorical proof of the efficacy of prayer? As it stands, it seems like congregations are at best wasting their time praying for successful outcomes of surgery etc, and might even be having a detrimental effect on their intended subjects.

As stupid a s I think praying is, that last part would be incorrect. Those reports are scientifically very weak.

The death ratio would be linked to medical factors, not on prayers given. The chances are more people are inclined to pray the more severe the diagnosis or unlikely the outcome and thus the medical statistical likelihood of success would be low anyway.

For instance a church could claim prayer works by praying for things that are statistically positive anyway, such as not dying from the common cold. That in itself would not be proof prayer actually worked.