Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

111KAB

Thanks to the normal contributors (Centipede, Mark, Blindman) my Claimant response to the Court is nearly complete but the following introduced by JoeRugby from BA will also be included in my statement as the BA response/answers should carry some weight with the DJ....

Q5: Are there circumstances where the airline can refuse compensation?
A5: Yes: these are referred to in the Regulation as “extraordinary circumstances”. There is no definitive list of extraordinary circumstances. Broadly speaking, extraordinary circumstances are events that are outside the airline’s control and the concept also implies a departure from what can be expected in the normal course of operation.
As a rough rule of thumb, events such as weather delays, ATC delays, cancellations due to strikes or to political instability (war, terrorism threats, etc...),are usually regarded as constituting extraordinary circumstances. Even then, however, each case must be looked at on its merits to ascertain the “extraordinary” character of the event.

Q6: do delays and cancellations due to mechanical problems with the aircraft constitute “extraordinary circumstances”?
A6: the same principle applies for technical problems as for other extraordinary circumstances: ‘ordinary’ technical problems that occur in the normal course of business are not regarded as extraordinary circumstances. On the other hand, a delay that would result, for instance, of damage to the aircraft due to sabotage or terrorism, or a request by Boeing or Airbus to review certain mechanisms on all aircrafts of a particular model following the discovery of a hidden defect would constitute an ‘extraordinary circumstance”.
In practice, therefore, most mechanical problems are unlikely to constitute extraordinary circumstances.

Vauban

111KAB wrote: »

Thanks to the normal contributors (Centipede, Mark, Blindman) my Claimant response to the Court is nearly complete but the following introduced by JoeRugby from BA will also be included in my statement as the BA response/answers should carry some weight with the DJ....

Err, except that a) this isn't formal British Airways policy: it's just one of their punter's personal - albeit well argued - interpretation of the law, posted on another forum; and b) even if it were BA's official public legal view, it wouldn't necessarily commit other airlines: it's still the Courts that make the call.

IMHO you are better off quoting the extract of view of the ECJ's Advocate General that was posted here a couple of days ago. That's just as definitive and has more gravitas (though it would still be for the DJ to make the call).

catwoman73

Partner and I were delayed by 5 hours on Jet2 flight from Barcelona to Leeds Bradford in May this year, due to seemingly minor faults with 2 or 3 planes (broken seat, something else I can't remember then removal of luggage of people deciding not to fly out on the plane coming to get us from Leeds, as their delay was over 5 hours too).

I sent a claim for £400 in on 19 November (template letter and copies of boarding passes) and received an acknowledgement on 27 November, but nothing since.

I have just emailed the CAA to see if they can give them a prod and I suppose that technically I will need to complain to the Spanish equivalent, but I've seen on here that the CAA are taking on the UK airlines on behalf of others delayed on Spain-UK flights - so here's hoping.

I'll give Jet2/CAA til the end of Jan to respond/pay up and then issue a claim through MCOL.

cathy1453

Has anyone had any success with a claim from Thomas Cook? I didn't keep my emails so have no booking reference and they are saying they have no record of me as a passenger on the flight - which was in March 2012. I'm thinking this must be a scam - surely they know who gets on their planes?

Anyone got any advice? I paid with my debit card, so I'm currently seeing if my bank has any reference details they can give me.

thalia22

delphi wrote: »

Can anyone help by clarifying six year rule for claims. I've written to Thomas Cook about a delay, had an initial response and written again asking for clarification of their claimed "extraordinary circumstances" but also warning them that I might begin legal route. Had no reply to second (recorded) letter. As six years is up in a couple of weeks, do I need to begin legal claim within the 6 years or must the court date be within six years?

Hi their,
If you are going to issue County Court claim before the expirary of the 6 year period, then you must fill out a N! form, pay the intial premuim and get it off to MCOL. If you dont, you stand to loose out due to expiary of time limit in UK. hope this helps.

111KAB

Vauban wrote: »

Err, except that a) this isn't formal British Airways policy: it's just one of their punter's personal - albeit well argued - interpretation of the law, posted on another forum; and b) even if it were BA's official public legal view, it wouldn't necessarily commit other airlines: it's still the Courts that make the call.
IMHO you are better off quoting the extract of view of the ECJ's Advocate General that was posted here a couple of days ago. That's just as definitive and has more gravitas (though it would still be for the DJ to make the call).

Agree totally. My Claimant response to the Court already runs to some 30 odd pages!! So the addition of a couple of paragraphs in the appropriate section can do not harm either way.
What is also interesting to note from a post that seems to be cropping up now is the ability of a passenger to prove they were on a particular flight and looking into the legal aspect it is virtually impossible. For those who haven't read my claim I quote from the Airlines defence ...."The Claimants are put to strict proof as to whether they were actually on the said flight". KLM, for example now accept e boarding - so you show them your i pad, get on the plane then delete your pdf. Even the fact you have your part of the boarding card does not mean you boarded the plane. I have obtained some preliminary legal advise on this aspect alone and at the moment I have switched my response to place the onus upon the airline to prove I wasn't on the plane. Even though I have receipts from the departure airport the day of the delay and the arrival airport the day after this is not absolute proof.
As I am currently lead to believe the airline should have its own manifest of who travelled on their plane on a certain day however I have not been able to ascertain (as yet) the legal requirement regarding how long they should retain this. It seems to me however that, say in one case, a claimant 'wins' and proves, for example, that extraordinary circumstances did not apply then the airline probably have the email addresses of most of the passengers who suffered the same delay. Total pipe dream but to save all of this thread/hassle would it not be great if the airline just emailed the delayed passenger and apologised with the 'your cheque is in the post!'.

111KAB

catwoman73 wrote: »

I have just emailed the CAA to see if they can give them a prod and I suppose that technically I will need to complain to the Spanish equivalent, but I've seen on here that the CAA are taking on the UK airlines on behalf of others delayed on Spain-UK flights - so here's hoping.

Seems they have too many people requesting the same ..... extract from my response from CAA.....

I note that you would prefer that we dealt with your complaint. Our view has always been that passengers would generally prefer to have their complaint handled by their own national complaints handling body. But we were not able to persuade either the European Commission or other National Enforcement Bodies. So we had to fall into line with the policy that complaints falling within the scope of Regulation EC261/2004 would be handled by the NEB in the country where the disruption occurred. With this inmind, I am afraid we would not be in a position to assist with your claim.

thalia22

111KAB wrote: »

Seems they have too many people requesting the same ..... extract from my response from CAA.....

I note that you would prefer that we dealt with your complaint. Our view has always been that passengers would generally prefer to have their complaint handled by their own national complaints handling body. But we were not able to persuade either the European Commission or other National Enforcement Bodies. So we had to fall into line with the policy that complaints falling within the scope of Regulation EC261/2004 would be handled by the NEB in the country where the disruption occurred. With this inmind, I am afraid we would not be in a position to assist with your claim.

Hi their,
In my original contact with the CAA, prior to the Uk high Court blocking further UK claims until ratification from the ECJ, the CAA forwarded on my behalf, my claim to the Spanish Regulator the AESA, who investigated my claim fully. The CAA stated that they were only acting as a post box, passing my claim to the Country of origin, (Spain), and its official air regulator, the AESA.

So I would suggest you write directly to the AESA, and copy it to the CAA for their reference file.

The adress for the AESA is:-
Ministerio De Fomento. Agencia Estatl De Seguridad De La Aviacion Civil Y proteccion Al Usuario, (AESA), Po De La Castellana, 67, 28071, Madrid, Spain. tel:91 597 8321/72 31/50 75. www.sequridadaerea.es

I would suggest sending by recorded Royal Mail delivery as proof of posting. Hope this helps. My advice is for guidance only.

tinker1234

Hi Everyone,

I hope someone can help me out.

I'm writing my letter for compensation on a delayed flight to Goa. I booked my flights through First Choice but my flight was with Thomas Cook.

Who do i address the letter to?

Thanks in advance.

111KAB

Thalia22 - thank you - if you read my earlier posts you will see I did this sometime ago and their responses form part of my Court claim (exhibit) - my post was issued to advise catwoman that her approach to the CAA may well fall on deaf ears.