ATOS loses ESA & PIP Assessment Contract

CTcelt1988

Widelats wrote: »

OK back to the subject - does this mean ATOS will lose the Scottish pip contract and if so, does anyone know exactly when?

I have a assessment due soon i'd like to know.

I think ATOS subcontracted it to NHS Lanarkshire anyway. I would presume they will continue to do the assessments in Scotland.

rds60h

I seem to remember G4S being one of the companies applying for the contracts. What a wonderful competant company they would be !!!!!!
If they get any of the contracts then there needs to be an investigation because there would have to be favours and back handers involved for them to be awarded any contracts after all of the mess ups they have made on the government contracts they have already held.

tokenfield

Prinzessilein wrote: »

I am in the Support Group for a reason - because I cannot work. If I could , I would!....if Work -related activities were possible I would be in the WRA group.

Not true.

Being in the Support Group does NOT mean that you cannot work. What it means is that you passed a relevant descriptor. You could be in the Support Group simply because you are unable to mobilise - that wouldn't stop you working.

Ah - so those in the WRA group then ARE capable of carrying out some work - thank you!

colin13

CTcelt1988 wrote: »

I think ATOS subcontracted it to NHS Lanarkshire anyway. I would presume they will continue to do the assessments in Scotland.

do u think,this will end computer based medicals,and civil servants deciding,whether we are ill or not,untill this is sorted out,i see very little change

schrodie

tokenfield wrote: »

Not true.

Being in the Support Group does NOT mean that you cannot work. What it means is that you passed a relevant descriptor. You could be in the Support Group simply because you are unable to mobilise - that wouldn't stop you working.

Ah - so those in the WRA group then ARE capable of carrying out some work - thank you!

Being in the Support Group means that the effects of a your health condition or disability are so severe that it would be unreasonable to expect them you prepare for work. Note the word 'unreasonable', if you don't know what it means then look it up.

However as you have said on previous occasions that 'Everyone CAN do some work.' it would be interesting to hear from you how you expect those in a Persistent Vegetative State or a long term coma or those people who severely mentally and/or physically handicapped can do work? Because has you have said 'Everyone CAN do some work.'

tokenfield

schrodie wrote: »

Being in the Support Group means that the effects of a your health condition or disability are so severe that it would be unreasonable to expect them you prepare for work.

Quite, quite.

But you are ignoring the fact that it would be unreasonable to expect them to prepare for work but it still doesn't preclude them from being able to work and/or look for work. You can still volunteer to go onto the Work Programme AND be in the Support Group.

Just because you are in the Support Group it doesn't mean that everyone is written off as incapable of work.

Of course the regulations say this as it is a 'one size fits all' statement.

So you can easily have a fair number that are still able to work that are in the Support Group and the majority that are in the Work Group. That adds up to a lot of claimants.

To me it seems that people are using ESA as a way of avoiding looking for work or getting back to work as quickly as possible.
Surely you don't want ESA to go down the same road as IB did with 1000's of claimants being able to stay on that benefit for years simply because no real checks or assessments were carried out or people saw that being on IB was the easier option that claiming Unemployment Benefit?

I claim ESA because I am entitled to it by virtue of (a) my previous contributions that I paid whilst working and (b) the DWP have deemed it appropriate on two occasions and after reviewing the evidence and taking on board the assessment, that I qualify for the Support Group on a long term basis.

All that proves is that I have passed the tests & achieved enough points in the relevant descriptors, it doesn't prove that I am incapable of doing any type of work.

I acknowledge that fact and am doing everything possible to continue to work given the constraints of my illness/disabilities.

Likewise, and getting back to the original thread, PIP is a more rational way of assessing people. Why do people still want to rely of getting a benefit (DLA) based entirely on how good you are at filling in a claim form and how sympathetic your GP is?

Whether it is ATOS or another organisation that will take PIP forward - it doesn't matter just as long as the system isn't changed.

Finally what you fail to realise is that there have been more claimants that have qualified for ESA under ATOS than have failed. We generally only hear about those that fail on sites like this.
The DWP Medical Services division who are the ones that advise the DWP on Medical matters are ATOS also - I doubt very much that they will lose that part of the contract.

tokenfield

colin13 wrote: »

do u think,this will end computer based medicals,and civil servants deciding,whether we are ill or not,untill this is sorted out,i see very little change

No, not at all - computer driven assessments are the way forward, going back to the old way of having a 'medic' assess you will always lead to variable decisions.

colin13

tokenfield wrote: »

No, not at all - computer driven assessments are the way forward, going back to the old way of having a 'medic' assess you will always lead to variable decisions.

i dare say the computer if accepts that everyone has diffrent problems,and not every illness is the same,,then going to civil servant who is not medical trained,making these desions,,must agree,there aint an easy way,but one size does not fit all

schrodie

tokenfield wrote: »

Just because you are in the Support Group it doesn't mean that everyone is written off as incapable of work.

The problem is that you have said that 'Everyone CAN do some work.' which means that according to YOU someone who is in the Support Group by virtue of being in a Persistent Vegetative State or a long term coma or having a severely mental and/or physical handicap can some work?

Which like most of what you have said is utter nonsense.

PS The longest you can be in the SG for is 3 years before reassessment.

schrodie

colin13 wrote: »

i dare say the computer if accepts that everyone has diffrent problems,and not every illness is the same,,then going to civil servant who is not medical trained,making these desions,,must agree,there aint an easy way,but one size does not fit all

The reason why doctors carrying out assessments was changed to "any old healthcare person" being able to was purely cost. What atos did was devise their own computer software program to carry out these assessments. The one size invariant way LIMA works is totally unsuitable as has been found to be the case especially for mental health cases. Despite atos and their supporters saying that LIMA is only one aspect of the assessment process it is the main one that drives the assessment and produces the report the DWP DM rubber stamps.