After the Work Programme

donnajunkie

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Every job being filled is a hypothetical situation. The reality is there are always jobs turning over.

Ask yourself why the long term unemployed with years of experience in applying, perfecting CVs, interview technique etc can't secure the jobs that are there over someone who's relatively newer to the job market? Why do you think that is? How do these newer applicants go through the same system and get out the other end when 'experienced' jobseeksers can't?

i dont think anyone has said all the unemployed are perfect candidates. however if there were enough jobs for everyone i think you would find alot of those imperfections would be overlooked.

AP007

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Every job being filled is a hypothetical situation. The reality is there are always jobs turning over.

Ask yourself why the long term unemployed with years of experience in applying, perfecting CVs, interview technique etc can't secure the jobs that are there over someone who's relatively newer to the job market? Why do you think that is? How do these newer applicants go through the same system and get out the other end when 'experienced' jobseeksers can't?

One agency told me when I had been out of work 4 WEEKS 'my contacts want people in a job already not ones without a job even though you have only been out of work 4 weeks'

My old boss went for a new job and the 1st question the agency asked him was 'are you working' and when he said yes but would it be a problem if I wasn't they said yes and we wouldn't be able to deal with you.

Still can we get back to the topic

After the Work programme!

sensibleadvice

iammumtoone wrote: »

Rather than posting bad examples, don't you think it would be more helpful to post some good examples?

Unlike some, you seem like a poster who's prepared to acknowledge areas that may be improved and, more importantly act on it.

Check my replies on positive examples, to you in particular, ie CV's, college, application process IIRC?

Bad examples show what not to do. Not many employers for example would look at a templated cliched CV and think much to it yet you'd be surprised how many are sent in that format. Recognising what not to do can make a significant difference. In the example of the CV, I recall you were re writing yours to reflect you in your words?

imatt

sensibleadvice wrote: »

That ma be true. But again someone new to jobseeking has to figure all that out. Long term job seekers should have that worked out and be at an advantage on that front.

Nonsense! Many suspect vacancies are written in such a fashion to appear genuine. It's a bit like saying pensioners should never be caught out by dodgy workmen and lottery scams as they have lived longer and should have the wherewithal and life experience to have "worked it all out".

Plus you're ignoring the fact that an increasing number of jobseekers apply to such scams in order to avoid sanctioning.

And it is not "may be true", it IS true. Long term jobless or not, many vacancies are pure scams and dead end roles such as commission only marketing (in reality selling crap door to door), delivering catalouges for cleeneeze and betterware (which I have done for the latter earning just 20p in the £ per order) and in one case I enquired about a vacancy on the JCP jobpoints that appeared genuine enough at first glance. It was for an SEO consultant. The firm wanted £2k for 'training'. Upon further examination and a quick phone call, the position was actually a franchise investment, not a regular job. Very misleading to say the least.

It seems such scammery is even worse with Univ Jobmatch.

sensibleadvice

donnajunkie wrote: »

yes if someone wishes to do that they can.

Therein lies the problem, they don't wish to. Doing so may highlight there are solutions to these barriers, just not solutions they want to hear. It's much easier to blame others, the system and state for their predicament than do something about it.

AP007

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Therein lies the problem, they don't wish to. Doing so may highlight there are solutions to these barriers, just not solutions they want to hear. It's much easier to blame others, the system and state for their predicament than do something about it.

If a barrier creeps in within weeks of losing a job what is the solution to that one?

sensibleadvice

donnajunkie wrote: »

i dont think anyone has said all the unemployed are perfect candidates. however if there were enough jobs for everyone i think you would find alot of those imperfections would be overlooked.

All the more reason to focus on becoming the best applicant they can be.

sensibleadvice

AP007 wrote: »

One agency told me when I had been out of work 4 WEEKS 'my contacts want people in a job already not ones without a job even though you have only been out of work 4 weeks'

My old boss went for a new job and the 1st question the agency asked him was 'are you working' and when he said yes but would it be a problem if I wasn't they said yes and we wouldn't be able to deal with you.

Still can we get back to the topic

After the Work programme!

Whilst it's true some employers and agencies may take that approach many don't. Many may say they prefer people coming from jobs but consider an applicant who has been out of work 4 weeks. Of course when 4 weeks turns to 3 months, 6 months and years the same agency/employer may have a different view.

It appears to be 6 months since you've had a support meeting (after WP?):eek:. So after the WP it seems quite relevant to consider why, with all that previous and ongoing experience in applying, perfecting CVs, interview technique etc, why those post WP folk can't secure the jobs that are available over someone who's relatively new to the job market.

sensibleadvice

imatt wrote: »

Nonsense! Many suspect vacancies are written in such a fashion to appear genuine. It's a bit like saying pensioners should never be caught out by dodgy workmen and lottery scams as they have lived longer and should have the wherewithal and life experience to have "worked it all out".

Plus you're ignoring the fact that an increasing number of jobseekers apply to such scams in order to avoid sanctioning.

And it is not "may be true", it IS true. Long term jobless or not, many vacancies are pure scams and dead end roles such as commission only marketing (in reality selling crap door to door), delivering catalouges for cleeneeze and betterware (which I have done for the latter earning just 20p in the £ per order) and in one case I enquired about a vacancy on the JCP jobpoints that appeared genuine enough at first glance. It was for an SEO consultant. The firm wanted £2k for 'training'. Upon further examination and a quick phone call, the position was actually a franchise investment, not a regular job. Very misleading to say the least.

It seems such scammery is even worse with Univ Jobmatch.

OK, that said how do you explain relatively new job seekers get though this minefield and out the other end where long term jobseekers can't. Same systems, same govt, same everything. What's the difference if it's not the applicant?

sensibleadvice

AP007 wrote: »

If a barrier creeps in within weeks of losing a job what is the solution to that one?

What's the barrier?