After the Work Programme

imatt

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Of course there are hurdles to overcome in job seeking, as there are in many aspects of life. If others are getting jobs that you're applying for and you're not, failure to recognise the problem may be with yourself will only lead to continued failure.

Indeed successful applicants rely on this to some extent, being able to get through sifts and to interviews by being better than many poor applicants who fail to recognise they are poor applicants.

The you's and yours and generic btw.

You talk as though scam vacancies are justifiable. They are not. Do you not think JCP should have a much better and more robust system of filtering?

As I said, you are failing to recognise the number of people overall falling for such scams regardless as to whether they secure a genuine position after being 3, 6, 12 or 24 months out of the job market. I know a couple of people who have fallen for such scams personally.

mro

sensibleadvice wrote: »

OK, that said how do you explain relatively new job seekers get though this minefield and out the other end where long term jobseekers can't. Same systems, same govt, same everything. What's the difference if it's not the applicant?

You can't continue to generalise like this, it is irrelevant.

Some jobseekers will get through minefield, some won't !

Everything you say is generalised rubbish.

It depends on the individual & situation.

mro

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Of course there are hurdles to overcome in job seeking, as there are in many aspects of life. If others are getting jobs that you're applying for and you're not, failure to recognise the problem may be with yourself will only lead to continued failure.

Indeed successful applicants rely on this to some extent, being able to get through sifts and to interviews by being better than many poor applicants who fail to recognise they are poor applicants.

The you's and yours and generic btw.

Generalised throwaway twaddle.

Those on benefits are in daily battle to survive.

sensibleadvice

AP007 wrote: »

Others? Others the same as me or just joe blogs in general? How do I know as I do not know these people.

We are going round in circles here and you don't get it.

How did you get 31 positive replies and only 15 interviews?

With only 4 job offers?

What is a positive reply? Is 'you have too much experience for this role and would get bored' a positive one? I don't think so.

So on that basis all the replies I get are negative now.

Here you go, just what worked very well for me. I can identify how every stage of every application went by:


Date, Company Or Agency, Job, Salary, CV, Type Of Application, Where Advertsied, Internet Advertisment, Follow Up, Negative Reply, Positive Reply, Agency Or Sift Interview, First Interview, Second Interview, Job Offer, Total Responses, Feedback? Quality Of Feedback.

I was honest with how I thought each application was going/gone. Positive replies were of course interview but also where I thought a follow up may lead to success, eg you're over qualified for the job you've applied for but we're looking to appoint to x position at x date. Similarly some, (most actually) "we'll let you know/keep you on file" were counted as negative. Vast majority were qualified with feedback and I'd take a view as to whether anything was worth following up.

I found the last heading, quality of feedback was particularly useful some (a few) didn't want to give the time of day with feedback (maybe for example because that particular interview was crap), others were great giving feedback about what went well and what could have been better, some even saying close ran second etc (which may or may not have been true). The point is an honest to yourself assessment of the feedback allows for improvement. Of course some of the positive replies amounted to nothing but I'd certainly have had less interviews and one less offer if I hadn't followed up on the positive replies.

Too much experience...the jobs ranged from 16k to 48k. My realistic ball park was in the middle. Of the 4 offers one was the higher end, one the lower and 2 in the middle, one of which I accepted. The lower offer said exactly what you have quoted to me at interview but I managed to turn it round saying it's not all about the money etc. As to whether it's a positive reply for you, ultimately a no is negative so I'd agree in that particular application. But should that experience stop you applying for a similar role - no because you learn from it and convince the next employer you wouldn't get bored.

You have too much experience for ALL the jobs you're applying for? Seriously? Then what types of jobs are you applying for and what is your ideal/target job?

If I were unemployed tomorrow I'd do the same and believe this method would win out again.

Podge52

sensibleadvice wrote: »

Here you go, just what worked very well for me. I can identify how every stage of every application went by:


Date, Company Or Agency, Job, Salary, CV, Type Of Application, Where Advertsied, Internet Advertisment, Follow Up, Negative Reply, Positive Reply, Agency Or Sift Interview, First Interview, Second Interview, Job Offer, Total Responses, Feedback? Quality Of Feedback.

I was honest with how I thought each application was going/gone. Positive replies were of course interview but also where I thought a follow up may lead to success, eg you're over qualified for the job you've applied for but we're looking to appoint to x position at x date. Similarly some, (most actually) "we'll let you know/keep you on file" were counted as negative. Vast majority were qualified with feedback and I'd take a view as to whether anything was worth following up.

I found the last heading, quality of feedback was particularly useful some (a few) didn't want to give the time of day with feedback (maybe for example because that particular interview was crap), others were great giving feedback about what went well and what could have been better, some even saying close ran second etc (which may or may not have been true). The point is an honest to yourself assessment of the feedback allows for improvement. Of course some of the positive replies amounted to nothing but I'd certainly have had less interviews and one less offer if I hadn't followed up on the positive replies.

Too much experience...the jobs ranged from 16k to 48k. My realistic ball park was in the middle. Of the 4 offers one was the higher end, one the lower and 2 in the middle, one of which I accepted. The lower offer said exactly what you have quoted to me at interview but I managed to turn it round saying it's not all about the money etc. As to whether it's a positive reply for you, ultimately a no is negative so I'd agree in that particular application. But should that experience stop you applying for a similar role - no because you learn from it and convince the next employer you wouldn't get bored.

You have too much experience for ALL the jobs you're applying for? Seriously? Then what types of jobs are you applying for and what is your ideal/target job?

If I were unemployed tomorrow I'd do the same and believe this method would win out again.

Just out of interest what is your job title?

Do you think you would receive the same sort of feedback and fare as well if you were applying for 20 hours shelf stacking at Tesco for example?

AP007

sensibleadvice wrote: »

You have too much experience for ALL the jobs you're applying for? Seriously? Then what types of jobs are you applying for and what is your ideal/target job?

If I were unemployed tomorrow I'd do the same and believe this method would win out again.

Because I am not applying for senior roles that's why!!

When a job is advertised and I can do it I apply - not my fault they don't want experienced people.

I have no ideal - target job or career goal now

I wont reply anymore as you really do not seem to get it.

sensibleadvice

mro wrote: »

You can't continue to generalise like this, it is irrelevant.

Some jobseekers will get through minefield, some won't !

Everything you say is generalised rubbish.

It depends on the individual & situation.

mro wrote: »

Generalised throwaway twaddle.

Those on benefits are in daily battle to survive.

I've already posted my experience of job seeking, 4 offers in 2 months. The generalising got me though the minefield.

I agree though, it does depend on the individual and situation. What's yours, or is that too sensitive a question to ask?


Perhaps you'd explain what you do and how are you're qualified to know better? Only, as yet, you've STILL not managed to contribute in that way, just, er generalise about generalising.

In the absence of that, IMO if you've a daily battle you'd do something about it, not just expect anything more if you've nothing to contribute. Anyway good luck with your approach.

sensibleadvice

Podge52 wrote: »

Just out of interest what is your job title?

Do you think you would receive the same sort of feedback and fare as well if you were applying for 20 hours shelf stacking at Tesco for example?

Logistics Mgr. My job search went from analyst to regional manager.

Yes, if my field were 20 hour shelf stacking jobs, in competition with people applying for the same. Ultimately someone has to be successful in getting the 20 hour shelf stacking job in Tesco. In that arena, Tesco might for example give no/crap feedback but Asda Sainsburys, Morrisons etc may be better, interview or offer.

sensibleadvice

AP007 wrote: »

Because I am not applying for senior roles that's why!!

When a job is advertised and I can do it I apply - not my fault they don't want experienced people.

I have no ideal - target job or career goal now

I wont reply anymore as you really do not seem to get it.

Not sure why you're not applying for senior roles if that's what you're experienced in.

If you're applying for jobs below your experience it's not impossible to convince the employer you're the right candidate IMO.

OK, good luck.

mro

sensibleadvice wrote: »

I've already posted my experience of job seeking, 4 offers in 2 months. The generalising got me though the minefield.

I agree though, it does depend on the individual and situation. What's yours, or is that too sensitive a question to ask?


Perhaps you'd explain what you do and how are you're qualified to know better? Only, as yet, you've STILL not managed to contribute in that way, just, er generalise about generalising.

In the absence of that, IMO if you've a daily battle you'd do something about it, not just expect anything more if you've nothing to contribute. Anyway good luck with your approach.

That's brilliant for you that you have 4 offers in 2 months.

But that does not qualify you to give advice to all & sundry who have come off 2 year government Work Programme or talk down to them in a condascending patronising way, saying their comments on their experiences are negative. They are comments of fact & direct experience.

I'm qualified as I have been through Work Programme and have direct experience of dealing with Jobcentre, their staff, systems & programmes.

My situation isn't relevant, all I'm saying is don't dismiss their comments & experiences as simply negativity.

Yes, everyone can do better in all sorts of way, but they are living on benefits surviving, being attacked & demonised on all fronts by government and other know alls, so there is a limit to what they can do.