Opinion on leaving 13 yr old and 9 yr old home alone while working 9-5?

FBaby

poet123 wrote: »

I think that often though it is expediency rather than fostering maturity that means some parents allow their teens to do things that other parents would baulk at. If you have a split family then clearly it is necessary for the child to see the other parent, if neither parent wishes to accompany the child on the journey then of course you are going to say "You will be fine"... Having to do something, is very different from wanting to do it.

There is no way I would have allowed my 12 year old to fly alone, yet strangely I have managed to produce functional, intelligent, fearless adults.

Why making this assumption? Children at 12 have the choice to either fly alone OR to be chaperoned. It's not a case of not having a choice. Last year, I decided that my then 12yo would be chaperoned having never done it before despite it costing double. This year, I asked her what she wanted to do and she almost begged me not to fly with a chaperone because she was the only one that age last year and she felt embarrassed.

I really don't think that such companies as British Airways or Air France would set their age rules on the basis of expediency if there was any concern about child welfare, especially when it actually cost almost twice as much to use chaperone services. They rightly feel comfortable that this decision should be left to parents because they accepts that not all 12yo will have similar experiences of flying. There will be a big difference between a 12yo who has been flying alone every other week-end since they were toddlers to one who has never set foot on a plane.

I really don't want to start the old debate again, but I sincerely don't understand why you cannot accept that some children are more naturally confident and mature then others.

FBaby

There is no way I would have allowed my 12 year old to fly alone, yet strangely I have managed to produce functional, intelligent, fearless adults.

Out of curiosity, would you have felt the same if your child, like mine had actually told you they didn't want to be shaperoned and felt totally comfortable flying on their own?

poet123

FBaby wrote: »

Out of curiosity, would you have felt the same if your child, like mine had actually told you they didn't want to be shaperoned and felt totally comfortable flying on their own?

Yes, I would still have felt the same because it would be as much for my piece of mind as theirs. I wouldn't take the chance (however unlikely) that something would occur after they had passed through to airside that I wouldn't want them to have to deal with alone.

For example, we have had friends whose passports were stolen airside, we have had friends whose family were involved in a crash en route to collecting them from the airport, we have personally had 12 hour delays without information and when the mood of the passengers turned quite aggressive.

If they are chaperoned all those issues would be dealt with by an adult.

And to say this " but I sincerely don't understand why you cannot accept that some children are more naturally confident and mature then others." as a reason why it should be allowed, is, to mind mind, an abdication of parental responsibility.

Yes, they may cope with it, ( they wouldn't have any choice) but at 12, it is not their job to do so. They learn by watching others cope with it, so that if they find themselves in that type of situation as young adults they have the resources to do it themselves. They shouldn't, imo, be forced to cope with it as children because it suits the family dynamic.

I don't buy the "throw them in at the deep end" way of raising confident kids.

FBaby

I understand your position and I think this is where we ultimately differ in our views and always will, no right no wrong, just different positions. It goes back to the statement I wrote earlier that from my perspective, I rather take what I consider a very small risk for the huge benefit that comes with confidence.

I understand that from your perspective, you have seen your children grow into confident children therefore that position doesn't stand. Inevitably though, we can't look ahead and be confident that our actions will have the intended outcome. We go with what we believe in. I didn't breastfeed my children for whatever reasons. A pro-breasfeeding expert would have told me that statistics supported that my babies were more at risk of becoming obese, hyperactive, prone to allergies and less intelligent. None of this applied in their case. It could be concluded that either I did right for my circumstances or that I was lucky. We will never know.

Just to illustrate the difference between children. My 13yo was planning to wear short shorts on the plane. I explained to her that it was totally inappropriate and when she asked why, I asked her how she would feel if an old man started dribbling staring at her legs or worse touching her. She immediately told me that if it happened, she would smack him in the face and scream. The thing is, I totally believe that she would because she is that confident. I can however totally appreciate that most 13 yo would not know what to do in these circumstances and end up petrified and potentially traumatised. She still wore her jeans though

I actually believe that my 13yo would deal better in an emergency than myself. When she was only 7 or 8, I suffered from an ear infection living me totally dizzy and at one point, I thought I was about to faint and got scared at how my children would react if there were to see me unconscious. I managed to call a friend who asked to speak to my DD. She asked if she wanted her to come over. My DD replied to her there was no need, that if it happened, she would call 999 and then her. She made her repeat 3 times that she was ok with being alone with me, and she told her to stop asking her, that if she wasn't, she would tell her. She came to me, asked me if I was ok and told me not to worry that she would know what to do if I wasn't well. I didn't pass out! There have been instances when she have thought quicker than I about the right way to deal with a situation.

I've never forced my children to do things they were not happy to do. That is completely counter-productive and could only lead to anxieties and phobias. However, I wouldn't feel I was doing the right thing by stopping them doing something they felt capable of doing when I myself believed they were capable of it to, just because of the small risk that things could do wrong. It comes back to my belief that that small risk is worth taking for the benefit that comes with it (or the damage that holding back a child can cause in other circumstances).

So in the instance of flying alone. Yes there is a very small chance that something went wrong, that she would be confused and scared and as a result psychologically damage, but I have assessed that both the risk of such an incident happening, or that the way she would cope with it would result in psychological damage was much smaller than the benefit she will gain from being completely comfortable travelling on her own and feeling good about herself for doing so.

poet123

I am not sure how you can assess the potential psychological damage and make a risk benefit calculation. My belief is that most kids would say they would be happy to deal with xyz and may even believe that but if it happened they may behave entirely differently.

Going with your example (and leaving aside the obvious flaw that a real pervert would probably be just as touchy feely with your daughter wearing jeans as shorts) would you not as a parent be horrified if that had happened to her and she had had to cope with it at 12? Suppose she wasn't believed? Suppose she couldn't stop him till he had had a good feel, suppose she was believed and the police became involved?

How can you factor all that into your assessment and even hazard a guess at what the outcome on her confidence may be? There are those who would disagree that you should mention clothing as a catalyst for issues of that type ( I am not one of them) but the fact that she ultimately chose to wear jeans does show that she actually didn't want to deal with such issues should they arise.

My take on raising confident kids is to give them the tools to cope with issues by example and discussion, and whilst they have the safety net of parental involvement. If they have to cope, they probably will. but imo it is my job as a parent not to put them in that position until they are young adults.

None of mine were breastfed either!!

FBaby

Going with your example (and leaving aside the obvious flaw that a real pervert would probably be just as touchy feely with your daughter wearing jeans as shorts) would you not as a parent be horrified if that had happened to her and she had had to cope with it at 12? Suppose she wasn't believed? Suppose she couldn't stop him till he had had a good feel, suppose she was believed and the police became involved?

But who says that wouldn't happen even if chaperoned? Even if I was on the same plane? We have on a few occasions had to seat a few rows apart because of sitting availability. I feel much more reassured that she believes (and so do I) that she would know what to do in this instance alone, then that she would rely on anyone who couldn't possibly be aware of everything that is happening to her at all time.

My take on raising confident kids is to give them the tools to cope with issues by example and discussion, and whilst they have the safety net of parental involvement. If they have to cope, they probably will. but imo it is my job as a parent not to put them in that position until they are young adults.

And that is exactly what I did and do all the time. I discuss many serious things with my kids totally naturally. I am very opened about some decisions I make and why I make them. We also often discuss 'what if' scenarios. We discuss the news almost daily.

Once again, we can't be with our kids all the time to protect them. You can't go to school with them to insure they are not bullied. You can't stop them from going to school because it could happen and you are not confident as a parent they would know how to cope with an incident. You talk to them about what to do, you tell them to report things, you reassure them that they can always come to you for anything, and you do your best to insure the environment they are in minimise the risk of it happening, but you can't be 100% certain that it won't happen or 100% that they will indeed to exactly what they should be doing if it does happen.

poet123

FBaby wrote: »

But who says that wouldn't happen even if chaperoned? Even if I was on the same plane? We have on a few occasions had to seat a few rows apart because of sitting availability. I feel much more reassured that she believes (and so do I) that she would know what to do in this instance alone, then that she would rely on anyone who couldn't possibly be aware of everything that is happening to her at all time. .

Surely the point is to minimise risk?

It is less likely to happen if she is seen boarding with someone, or seen to be under the care of an authorised adult. Human nature dictates that those will ill intent choose their victim from the most vulnerable and like it or not, a child travelling alone falls into that category. Yes, it still may happen if you were onboard too, but it is less likely and also she has unconditional support available to her.

FBaby wrote: »

Once again, we can't be with our kids all the time to protect them. You can't go to school with them to insure they are not bullied. You can't stop them from going to school because it could happen and you are not confident as a parent they would know how to cope with an incident. You talk to them about what to do, you tell them to report things, you reassure them that they can always come to you for anything, and you do your best to insure the environment they are in minimise the risk of it happening, but you can't be 100% certain that it won't happen or 100% that they will indeed to exactly what they should be doing if it does happen.

I really don't think you can equate sending them to school where they are known, to crossing your fingers, waving them off at departures and them getting on a plane full of strangers.

FBaby

When I was just 17, my parent's good friend, who happened to be my sister's best friends' dad stated to hit on me in a very obvious way. The thing is, he was absolutely gorgeous, as in really really gorgeous, and however much I knew it was wrong, I was flattered. He used to call me in secret, and every time we met as friends, he always made sure he sat next to me at the table and touched me under (with my dad on my other side). After he insisted, we met up, but thankfully, however infatuated I was, my brain kicked in and I told him to get lost. It all stopped then.

I only told my dad many years later when they had lost contact and he was absolutely godsmacked. He said he would never ever have suspected him to be a pervert. All this happened right under their eyes and they were clueless. Thankfully, my parents had brought me up to be self aware and confident. It is the self-awareness that made me realise despite my feelings that he was only after one thing. It is my sense of confidence that allowed me to tell him to get lost.

poet123

FBaby wrote: »

When I was just 17, my parent's good friend, who happened to be my sister's best friends' dad stated to hit on me in a very obvious way. The thing is, he was absolutely gorgeous, as in really really gorgeous, and however much I knew it was wrong, I was flattered. He used to call me in secret, and every time we met as friends, he always made sure he sat next to me at the table and touched me under (with my dad on my other side). After he insisted, we met up, but thankfully, however infatuated I was, my brain kicked in and I told him to get lost. It all stopped then.

I only told my dad many years later when they had lost contact and he was absolutely godsmacked. He said he would never ever have suspected him to be a pervert. All this happened right under their eyes and they were clueless. Thankfully, my parents had brought me up to be self aware and confident. It is the self-awareness that made me realise despite my feelings that he was only after one thing. It is my sense of confidence that allowed me to tell him to get lost.

Well done, though what relevance it has to the subject matter I am not sure. Unless you are contending that your self confidence and self confidence in general stems only from being allowed/made/encouraged to do things beyond your years?

Interesting that you didn't do as your daughter said she would do under the same circumstances....yet you have no doubt that she would do it, with less support available.

valk_scot

FBaby wrote: »

When I was just 17, my parent's good friend, who happened to be my sister's best friends' dad stated to hit on me in a very obvious way. The thing is, he was absolutely gorgeous, as in really really gorgeous, and however much I knew it was wrong, I was flattered. He used to call me in secret, and every time we met as friends, he always made sure he sat next to me at the table and touched me under (with my dad on my other side). After he insisted, we met up, but thankfully, however infatuated I was, my brain kicked in and I told him to get lost. It all stopped then.

I only told my dad many years later when they had lost contact and he was absolutely godsmacked. He said he would never ever have suspected him to be a pervert. All this happened right under their eyes and they were clueless. Thankfully, my parents had brought me up to be self aware and confident. It is the self-awareness that made me realise despite my feelings that he was only after one thing. It is my sense of confidence that allowed me to tell him to get lost.

I know it's not right for a married (?) older man to be making advances like this to a much younger girl that he's possibly know since she was a lot younger and taking advantage of her inexperience, but to be fair, how does that make him a pervert? You were seventeen, that's a year over the age of consent in this country. It's perfectly legal for a 40+ year old man to go out with a 17 year old girl, have sex, get married, be very happy together. People may be a bit uncomfortable with the age difference but that doesn't make him a pervert.