16 year old, temp job, too many hours?

notanewuser

hollylangman37 wrote: »

Yes I have personally witnessed it. I have been into ET's and seen companies brought to them for breaching the Regulations.

I work for a large retailer who employs auditors who check that the company is trading legally, this includes working time. Being head of Training and Recruitment, you must be aware of the Regulations issued.

For those who aren't too sure, this provides a brief summary: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/nov/06/workandcareers.europeanunion

Every company has a legal duty to keep accurate records showing that working time regulations are being complied with for each employee. If a company breaches the regulations and it is brought to the attention of the relevant authorities, the company can face being fined

I know the regs inside and out, thank you.

What was the outcome of these tribunals you've personally witnessed then?

itzmee

sulkisu wrote: »

At the risk of setting OP off again, perhaps a better way of handling the situation would have been for the daughter (who is after all, old enough to work) to have raised the issue with the store instead of her mother. The outcome would have been the same and the daughter would probably gained a few brownie points into the bargain for tackling a difficult situation with maturity. Even though the store clearly made a mistake and were in the wrong, having a parent phone on your behalf to sort something out, does you no favours.

PS - that is a suggestion, not a criticism.

My 17 year old son has also just been offered a temporary summer job for the next two weeks, and tbh I 'm not so sure the above suggestion would go down well or score brownie points, as when DS called the store to enquire about his shifts - as they hadn't sent him an email with this information as promised - he was given short shrift when he tried to change them. He was also moaned at for daring to ask what his salary would be, even though they hadn't given him this information during the induction. And before anyone here jumps on this last piece of information asking why HE hadn't asked, he was too darned scared to ask anything at the induction as the woman was abrupt, unfriendly and any conversation that he did dare make, and he was the only one of the group to say a word, was met with one word answers without even looking at him. After his call this morning he is no wiser as to how much he will be paid, and not as excited to be starting the job.

carolan78

I've not read all of the thread so sorry if it is already mentioned. An earlier poster is right when she said it is in essence 1 shift. They call it a split shift so the 12 hours between shifts rule would not apply.

CH27

itzmee wrote: »

My 17 year old son has also just been offered a temporary summer job for the next two weeks, and tbh I 'm not so sure the above suggestion would go down well or score brownie points, as when DS called the store to enquire about his shifts - as they hadn't sent him an email with this information as promised - he was given short shrift when he tried to change them. He was also moaned at for daring to ask what his salary would be, even though they hadn't given him this information during the induction. And before anyone here jumps on this last piece of information asking why HE hadn't asked, he was too darned scared to ask anything at the induction as the woman was abrupt, unfriendly and any conversation that he did dare make, and he was the only one of the group to say a word, was met with one word answers without even looking at him. After his call this morning he is no wiser as to how much he will be paid, and not as excited to be starting the job.

I would assume it's National Minimum Wage for under 18s ie £3.68 per hour.

hollylangman37

notanewuser wrote: »

I know the regs inside and out, thank you.

What was the outcome of these tribunals you've personally witnessed then?

I'm sure you do know the regulations, I was just posting for others.

Usually the employees refused to work these shifts and were sacked, they brought unfair dismissal claims and received compensation where appropriate. Obviously it depends upon the individual facts of each case.

FBaby

This thread depresses me. Here we seem to have a willing teenager, prepared to work unfriendly hours to make money and gaining experience, and the mum getting involved and making a fuss, branding the legal card, taking over the responsibility of the teenager and being aggressive when people challenge her.

Surely if your daughter is old enough to hold the responsibilities that comes with the job, including health and safety, confidentiality and all those essential aspects expected of any job, surely she is old enough to call herself to ask about whether her shifts had been rightly allocated. And if she was happy to do them (and frankly, I also agree that if it was a non regular scenario, then so be it, young people have to accept that they WILL get the raw deal, but that should be an incentive to want to move up), why oh why get involved? What work ethic is this teaching her? That even before she started, she is going to be trouble, questioning everything, shouting her legal rights...well good luck building a career with such an attitude.

paulineb_2

carolan78 wrote: »

I've not read all of the thread so sorry if it is already mentioned. An earlier poster is right when she said it is in essence 1 shift. They call it a split shift so the 12 hours between shifts rule would not apply.

I wouldnt call that a split shift at all. Id call that two shifts with not enough gap in the middle.

http://www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk/go-freelance-guide/working-time-regulationsworking-hours-rest-breaks-holiday-entitlements-working-time-directive-and-bank-holidays/

The Working Time Regulations entitle all (* see Exceptions below) Workers and Employees to:

• A minimum Daily Rest period of 11 hours uninterrupted rest between finishing your job and starting the next day. (Workers aged between 15-18 are entitled to a minimum daily rest break of 12 hours).

Young workers cannot Opt Out.

As from the link above, young workers cannot opt out. From the above it would look like anyone under 18 should have a 12 hour break between finishing one shift and starting another.

paulineb_2

FBaby wrote: »

This thread depresses me. Here we seem to have a willing teenager, prepared to work unfriendly hours to make money and gaining experience, and the mum getting involved and making a fuss, branding the legal card, taking over the responsibility of the teenager and being aggressive when people challenge her.

Surely if your daughter is old enough to hold the responsibilities that comes with the job, including health and safety, confidentiality and all those essential aspects expected of any job, surely she is old enough to call herself to ask about whether her shifts had been rightly allocated. And if she was happy to do them (and frankly, I also agree that if it was a non regular scenario, then so be it, young people have to accept that they WILL get the raw deal, but that should be an incentive to want to move up), why oh why get involved? What work ethic is this teaching her? That even before she started, she is going to be trouble, questioning everything, shouting her legal rights...well good luck building a career with such an attitude.

If this is illegal the company shouldnt have asked the daughter to work those shifts in the first place.

Why should young people get a raw deal just for the sake of taking a job.

And yes, Ive worked shifts for long chunks of my life but I made sure when I was doing staff rotas that people got the rest time in between that they were entitled to. Unlike some employers I worked for.

I dont think asking someone to finish at midnight, get home, get a sleep, get up and start 5 and a half hours later is fair. And according to information online about Working Time Directives, its illegal.

Companies should know better, its their responsibility to make sure when they ask anyone to work a shift pattern that its legal or that workers opt out and I cant see how this can be, because someone under 18 isnt allowed to opt out.

balletshoes

sewandsew03 wrote: »

My problem is she has been on an induction today and her hours are:
Friday 12th: 8pm - 12am
Saturday 13th: 5.30am - 8.30am

paulineb wrote: »

I wouldnt call that a split shift at all. Id call that two shifts with not enough gap in the middle.

http://www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk/go-freelance-guide/working-time-regulationsworking-hours-rest-breaks-holiday-entitlements-working-time-directive-and-bank-holidays/

The Working Time Regulations entitle all (* see Exceptions below) Workers and Employees to:

• A minimum Daily Rest period of 11 hours uninterrupted rest between finishing your job and starting the next day. (Workers aged between 15-18 are entitled to a minimum daily rest break of 12 hours).

Young workers cannot Opt Out.

As from the link above, young workers cannot opt out. From the above it would look like anyone under 18 should have a 12 hour break between finishing one shift and starting another.

actually, looking at what the OP posted, I'd call that a split shift - starting at 8pm one evening, finished at 8.30am next morning, with a break inbetween.

Whats the definition of a split shift?

My OH is a chef, and his split shifts used to run from 9am until after 10pm, with a break of about 4 hours in the middle of the day. How is that any different to the OPs daughter's scenario, on the face of things?

FBaby

But it's not illegal as it's been stated a number of times already.

If the situation was indeed illegal, than the daughter should have been the one pointing it out. She IS the one being employed, not the mother.

Young people don't get raw deal, they get to learn that life doesn't evolve around them, which can be hard when they have been supported by overprotective parents all their lives.

She is NOT been asked to go to sleep in between. She is asked to sleep before the first part of her shift and after the second part. I'm sure if she was going to a gig to see her favourite band, she would manage to cope.

Still, I didn't get that outraged by the thread until OP said SHE called her daughter's boss. I would have been totally mortified if my parents had done that at that age, how embarrassing!