16 year old, temp job, too many hours?

hollylangman37

balletshoes wrote: »

actually, looking at what the OP posted, I'd call that a split shift - starting at 8pm one evening, finished at 8.30am next morning, with a break inbetween.

Whats the definition of a split shift?

My OH is a chef, and his split shifts used to run from 9am until after 10pm, with a break of about 4 hours in the middle of the day. How is that any different to the OPs daughter's scenario, on the face of things?

There are different regulations applying to both night workers and young workers, it is also dependent upon the industry where exceptions exist.

If the company insisted that the shift pattern was entirely acceptable, why would they have taken into account the OP's query and changed the working hours?

paulineb_2

FBaby wrote: »

But it's not illegal as it's been stated a number of times already.

If the situation was indeed illegal, than the daughter should have been the one pointing it out. She IS the one being employed, not the mother.

Young people don't get raw deal, they get to learn that life doesn't evolve around them, which can be hard when they have been supported by overprotective parents all their lives.

She is NOT been asked to go to sleep in between. She is asked to sleep before the first part of her shift and after the second part. I'm sure if she was going to a gig to see her favourite band, she would manage to cope.

Still, I didn't get that outraged by the thread until OP said SHE called her daughter's boss. I would have been totally mortified if my parents had done that at that age, how embarrassing!

Would someone who is under 18 know about working time directives and what that means to them?

I didnt know in any detail about working time directives until I managed a group of staff who worked shifts. No one who employed me, ie my bosses knew anything about it either, a lot of companies dont have a clue. But they need to have a clue.

Id be very surprised if on getting a temp part time job that someone under 18 would go, hang on a minute, thats breaking the european working time directive

And I do know that some companies expect people to work unsocial hours, a friends son works for McDonalds and he works shifts where he gets in at 3am or he has to start work at 3am. Of course we have moved on from 9-5 working.

Its up to the company to actually tell the employee, by the way this is two shifts or this is one shift.

As I said above, I worked shifts for years. I used to finish at 11 some nights, get the last bus home, an hours travel, be back up for a 7am start, which involved getting up at 5am for a 7am start.

Now, the company werent responsible for the fact that I lived 15 miles away or the fact that I dont drive, but until someone new came in and said, what on earth is the point of people starting work at 7am when nothing opens till 9am (I worked in a hostel for young people) and the rota was changed so that when we were on days we started at 8 instead of 7, that shift pattern was a hard slog.

Going to work on 5 hours sleep isnt the best and yes its different when someone is only doing two shifts a week.

But, you are asking people to finish and go home when theres no transport around (and I know some cities have 24 hour bus services, but other dont) and start when theres no transport around or limited services.

I think if theres any way that rotas can be re jigged so that people under 18 can do shifts where they travel home at least when theres a bus on, it would make life easier, but I wouldnt particularly want to start a shift having had 4 hours sleep.

And if that was an ongoing full time shift pattern and I know its not, Id struggle with those hours.

And I dont think Id feel much better if I finished a shift at midnight, stayed up until 5am and then started another one.

But we will all have different views and tolerances to working shifts, I did it for over 6 years and by the time I was done, I was really glad to be finished with them.

sulkisu

geri1965 wrote: »

What a pathetic lot some of you are with your sniping and petty remarks. Maybe the sun is making you irritable, but there is no need for it.

I hope that you are including OP in that comment. Some people, myself included, made perfectly valid and politely put points - many of OPs responses were less so. I am all for the 'be nice' mantra but it should work both ways.

PS - And 'yes', the sun is making me irritable .

sewandsew03

itzmee wrote: »

My 17 year old son has also just been offered a temporary summer job for the next two weeks, and tbh I 'm not so sure the above suggestion would go down well or score brownie points, as when DS called the store to enquire about his shifts - as they hadn't sent him an email with this information as promised - he was given short shrift when he tried to change them. He was also moaned at for daring to ask what his salary would be, even though they hadn't given him this information during the induction. And before anyone here jumps on this last piece of information asking why HE hadn't asked, he was too darned scared to ask anything at the induction as the woman was abrupt, unfriendly and any conversation that he did dare make, and he was the only one of the group to say a word, was met with one word answers without even looking at him. After his call this morning he is no wiser as to how much he will be paid, and not as excited to be starting the job.

Iztmee, you have hit the nail on the head here with your post, I basically had that conversation with my daughter when she returned home.

sewandsew03

FBaby wrote: »

This thread depresses me. Here we seem to have a willing teenager, prepared to work unfriendly hours to make money and gaining experience, and the mum getting involved and making a fuss, branding the legal card, taking over the responsibility of the teenager and being aggressive when people challenge her.
QUOTE]

it rather depresses me that a question cant be asked without it being twisted to making a "fuss".

Kayalana99

paulineb wrote: »

If this is illegal the company shouldnt have asked the daughter to work those shifts in the first place.

Why should young people get a raw deal just for the sake of taking a job.

And yes, Ive worked shifts for long chunks of my life but I made sure when I was doing staff rotas that people got the rest time in between that they were entitled to. Unlike some employers I worked for.

I dont think asking someone to finish at midnight, get home, get a sleep, get up and start 5 and a half hours later is fair. And according to information online about Working Time Directives, its illegal.

Companies should know better, its their responsibility to make sure when they ask anyone to work a shift pattern that its legal or that workers opt out and I cant see how this can be, because someone under 18 isnt allowed to opt out.

Regardless, I think she should be able to make her own decision. I happily would of done these hours at 16 to get abit of extra cash.

Now the 16 year old has basicly got half the hours she was orignally offered because of the Mum interferring.

Maybe it was wrong for them to offer them in first place - but at 16 she should be standing on her own 2 feet and if SHE had a problem...she should of made the call.

Infact knowing the retail envioment I bet thier all having a good laugh about the fact Mummy had to call to complain...

paulineb_2

If this shift pattern is indeed illegal she should never have been offered them in the first place.

And its very easy to say the girl should be standing on her own two feet, but at that age its not so easy. 16 years old and in your first job and all of a sudden you have to know all about working time regulations and also assert yourself and say you aren't doing it?
Ive been in jobs where its been hard to assert myself in my 20s and beyond due to certain bosses, never mind thinking about what my 16 year old self would have done.

And I may be in the minority here, but theres a clear safety issue about asking an under 18 to finish a shift at midnight unless they have someone who can come and collect them.

I don't agree that people should be grateful for any bits of work, even if the shifts aren't legal, just so they have a job.

If the company were in the wrong they were in the wrong and they are the ones who should have known what the girl could work, before they offered her the shifts.

And if they had, no one would be having this conversation.

itzmee

sewandsew03 wrote: »

Iztmee, you have hit the nail on the head here with your post, I basically had that conversation with my daughter when she returned home.

It's like getting blood from a stone isn't it, trying to get information from your teenager . I 'encouraged' my ds to call them back after his first call as he was given a shift from 5.30 am to 2.00 pm, however buses don't start running here until 6.30 so he had no way, other than walking, to get in. A taxi would cost around £10 which would basically use up around half of his day's wages if he was only getting around £4 an hour. Yes I know he's young, fit and able to walk but it would take about an hour and he would be sweaty and stinky by the time he got there and would have to be getting up at around 4am for just a temporary job - it really doesn't seem worth the effort or hassle for just possibly 4 shifts/16-20 hours in total! They ended up giving him a 4 hour shift with a 6.30 start instead which still doesn't help the public transport issue.

Also he was supposed to be given a uniform but all the t-shirts were too big so he now has to provide his own and wear all black - which of course he doesn't have - so we have to buy some new clothes. This is more expense that wouldn't be worth it as he isn't getting enough hours. He really won't make much money out of this at all but, like your daughter, he wants the experience for his cv so he can get another part time job afterwards.

sewandsew03

Kayalana99 wrote: »

Infact knowing the retail envioment I bet thier all having a good laugh about the fact Mummy had to call to complain...

I repeat I didn't complain, for those struggling with this,
I called to check if the shifts were right, I was asked how old my DD is because they are unable to ask ages, when I said 16 she said she said, no, she is not allowed to do that shift then come in so soon for another, I said, I thought so. She reduced the shift to one.

Can I make it clear that my DD is not bothered that she lost the other shift, she will have been in school all day Friday, we certainly did not want her doing the Friday shift AND the Saturday shift not only because I don't agree but more that myself or my husband will have to pick her up and drop off etc.

I'm flabbergasted at some of the attitudes on here, I've been accused of "sticking my oar in, making a fuss, pulling the legal card, being OTT, not understanding how the working world operates".

sewandsew03

itzmee wrote: »

It's like getting blood from a stone isn't it, trying to get information from your teenager . I 'encouraged' my ds to call them back after his first call as he was given a shift from 5.30 am to 2.00 pm, however buses don't start running here until 6.30 so he had no way, other than walking, to get in. A taxi would cost around £10 which would basically use up around half of his day's wages if he was only getting around £4 an hour. Yes I know he's young, fit and able to walk but it would take about an hour and he would be sweaty and stinky by the time he got there and would have to be getting up at around 4am for just a temporary job - it really doesn't seem worth the effort or hassle for just possibly 4 shifts/16-20 hours in total! They ended up giving him a 4 hour shift with a 6.30 start instead which still doesn't help the public transport issue.

Also he was supposed to be given a uniform but all the t-shirts were too big so he now has to provide his own and wear all black - which of course he doesn't have - so we have to buy some new clothes. This is more expense that wouldn't be worth it as he isn't getting enough hours. He really won't make much money out of this at all but, like your daughter, he wants the experience for his cv so he can get another part time job afterwards.

Finally someone who see's where I'm coming from!