16 year old, temp job, too many hours?

Dunroamin

paulineb wrote: »

I would assume this would apply if the company said to the girl at some stage, you are doing a split shift.

The people I know who work split shifts know they are split shifts

Also, anytime I did a shift on a Monday, even if there were only a few hours between the shift I did on the Tuesday, it was clear from the pattern of the rota I worked, that Monday was one shift, Tuesday was one shift

Its up to the company to let the worker know, people shouldnt have to be guessing as to whether a 5 hour break is part of a shift or whether its two shifts.

Seeing that the girl didn't tell her mother much (and knowing how little practical information some teenagers retain) I don't think anyone can know exactly what she was or wasn' t told.

notanewuser

paulineb wrote: »

If this is illegal the company shouldnt have asked the daughter to work those shifts in the first place.

Why should young people get a raw deal just for the sake of taking a job.

And yes, Ive worked shifts for long chunks of my life but I made sure when I was doing staff rotas that people got the rest time in between that they were entitled to. Unlike some employers I worked for.

I dont think asking someone to finish at midnight, get home, get a sleep, get up and start 5 and a half hours later is fair. And according to information online about Working Time Directives, its illegal.

Companies should know better, its their responsibility to make sure when they ask anyone to work a shift pattern that its legal or that workers opt out and I cant see how this can be, because someone under 18 isnt allowed to opt out.

NOBODY is allowed to opt out.

Certain professions and circumstances are exempted, retail being one of them.

sewandsew03

itzmee wrote: »

I so understand your frustration and think a lot of the posters are being quite harsh. Yes our teenagers are lucky to get a bit of work, but ultimately they won't get much out of it - not much experience and certainly not much money, which is what they're doing it for. Next, or at least their recruiting managers, are not interested in being helpful or understanding employers. They just want bodies in for their sale, most of whom are basically kids. There was no interview process, no information given on the actual job or package offered. They were more interested in seeing paperwork to confirm UK residency.

My son has stood on his own two feet in getting this job and contacted them twice today, but was just given little or conflicting information each time. He was berated for changing his shifts as he had initially stated that he was flexible with his working hours, and was willing to work whatever days were needed, but he didn't know that the working hours were almost 24 hours around the clock. I don't drive and have no way of getting him to/from work at silly o'clock - but they don't care or make allowances for this, especially when their temp staff are kids just out of school who have to rely on parents or public transport.

You're so right, there was no time for questions, no money was discussed, and no discussion of duties. It really was just, these are your shifts, here is your t-shirt, come back when needed. It wasn't even a manager but a lady who worked in office who oversaw the induction.

lostinrates

notanewuser wrote: »

NOBODY is allowed to opt out.

Certain professions and circumstances are exempted, retail being one of them.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maximum-working-hours-and-opting-out

Opting out Link.

i think its fair wnough to refer to it as opting out if the gov.uk website does and many industries do. In my husband's sort of work it is a requirement of wanting to be employed by all major employers to opt out. It's meant to be voluntary, and is...if you don't want a job you don't have to!

hollylangman37

notanewuser wrote: »

NOBODY is allowed to opt out.

Certain professions and circumstances are exempted, retail being one of them.

Over the age of 18, you are allowed to opt out of the 48 maximum weekly working hours, it must be voluntary.

16 and 17 year olds can only work a maximum of a 8 hour day and no more than 40 hours per week.

However notanewuser is entirely correct, you can't opt out of the other regulations.

notanewuser

You can ONLY opt out of the maximum working hours part of the regulations. You CANNOT opt out of the rest breaks/compensatory rest aspects.

For under 18s they should have 12 hours minimum between shifts, but they don't have to. It is not illegal to give them the shifts provided by the OP.

"Exceptions for young workers
Young workers sometimes aren’t entitled to daily rest or rest breaks at work if their work has to be done because of an exceptional event (eg an accident). This is only where:

there isn’t a worker over 18 who can do the work
the work is temporary and must be done immediately
If a young worker isn’t entitled to daily rest or rest breaks at work, they have the right to compensatory rest. This is the same amount of rest that they should have had. It can be taken just 
after any rest they’ve missed but it must be taken within the following 
3 weeks."

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/exceptions

lostinrates

notanewuser wrote: »

You can ONLY opt out of the maximum working hours part of the regulations. You CANNOT opt out of the rest breaks/compensatory rest aspects.

For under 18s they should have 12 hours minimum between shifts, but they don't have to. It is not illegal to give them the shifts provided by the OP.

"Exceptions for young workers
Young workers sometimes aren’t entitled to daily rest or rest breaks at work if their work has to be done because of an exceptional event (eg an accident). This is only where:

there isn’t a worker over 18 who can do the work
the work is temporary and must be done immediately
If a young worker isn’t entitled to daily rest or rest breaks at work, they have the right to compensatory rest. This is the same amount of rest that they should have had. It can be taken just 
after any rest they’ve missed but it must be taken within the following 
3 weeks."

https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/exceptions

Ah, I understand what you are saying now.

Must ask my DH if he gets his breaks. On the other hand, his employers do tend to be flexible in other ways when they can. No one even looks to see when he gets in to work for example. I think it works out fairly with the opt out accepted by both parties as necessary.

carolan78

paulineb wrote: »

I wouldnt call that a split shift at all. Id call that two shifts with not enough gap in the middle.

http://www.freelanceadvisor.co.uk/go-freelance-guide/working-time-regulationsworking-hours-rest-breaks-holiday-entitlements-working-time-directive-and-bank-holidays/

The Working Time Regulations entitle all (* see Exceptions below) Workers and Employees to:

• A minimum Daily Rest period of 11 hours uninterrupted rest between finishing your job and starting the next day. (Workers aged between 15-18 are entitled to a minimum daily rest break of 12 hours).

Young workers cannot Opt Out.

As from the link above, young workers cannot opt out. From the above it would look like anyone under 18 should have a 12 hour break between finishing one shift and starting another.

My friend is a bus driver and frequently gets shifts like these and they're certainly not illegal. All the company are doing is splitting one full 8 hour shift to accommodate business need.

TBH I really don't see why the Mum is kicking up such a fuss, I would much rather my child get a break in the middle of a night shift to grab a few hours sleep.

FBaby

I repeat I didn't complain, for those struggling with this,
I called to check if the shifts were right, I was asked how old my DD is because they are unable to ask ages, when I said 16 she said she said, no, she is not allowed to do that shift then come in so soon for another, I said, I thought so. She reduced the shift to one.

So it was so easy, why couldn't you let your daughter do this call. You could have spoken to her of your concerns about the legality of the situation and how she would cope. If she's agree with you, you could have advised to call and do exactly what you did.

sewandsew03 wrote: »

Paulilneb, thank you for this, I agree totally, not all 16 year olds are assertive, confident etc. For my DD personally this is a huge step for her, I'm afraid I don't agree with "old enough to work, old enough to speak up" brigade.

But you said it wasn't about speaking up, only about asking the question about whether the shifts were correct. How will she ever learn to be assertive if you think that she couldn't cope with asking such a simple question? Would you also contact her school if they were to give her the wrong book to study?

mountainofdebt

Thinking about this I do think that the OP has handled this badly, especially as her daughter was prepared to do the hours asked originally

What she could have done is to find out the legal position, warned her daughter that the employer may stop her doing the shifts and see what happens.