Problem with newly bought car

Retrogamer

motorguy wrote: »

Right. Last post on the subject.

The O/P's mechanic, having spend the day ruling out other possibilities concluded that the problem was due to a leaking cylinder, NOT coming down through the head. At no point did he say the fix was simply to remove the valve stem oil seals.

Where did the OP state the mechanic said it was anything in particular? No one is claiming the mechanic said it was the oil seals...No one is claiming it is the oil seals at all. Merely that it could be.

motorguy wrote: »

Vauxhall have had the car and they have concluded they want to strip the engine down to completely diagnose the problem. At no point did they say that the fix was simply replace the valve stem oil seals.

No one is claiming that it is the stem oil seals, just that from my personal experience it's just as likely to be them, if not more likely.

motorguy wrote: »

My personal experience over the last three years motor trader was of having three vauxhalls of circa 2002 / 2003, 1.6 petrols that had exactly the same symptoms. On all three occasions the engines were checked and on all three occasions it was diagnosed to be coming UP through the bores, not down through the head.

Ok, that's fine. If an engine doesn't start, and it's caused by a flat battery should we assume that any time an engine doesn't start it's always a flat battery? No, that's not how technicians should work. There are numerous possibilities to why it's getting oil on the plugs, but you're limiting the possibility to one.

motorguy wrote: »

SO, i concur with what the mechanic saw, and what Vauxhall saw, and i would conclude that the problem is oil coming UP.

So Vauxhall said they didn't know what was causing the problem without stripping the engine and you conclude from that the oil is coming out. Please explain how you came to this conclusion from that statement?

motorguy wrote: »

Now, for the one or two internet experts who have no experience of this engine and are mis-reading what those who have examined the engine are saying,.

This is the very definition of Irony my friend.
I'm an ex mechanic and still practise the trade as a hobby. I'm a long standing member on 3 Vauxhall forums which as mentioned include engine builders, mechanics and custom fabricators.
Sure, i don't know everything but i can say with enough confidence that Ecotec Vauxhall engines and valve stem oil seals & guides wearing isn't as uncommon as you'd suggest. Just spend 10 seconds on google and you'll see.

motorguy wrote: »

i am very surprised you can conclude the oil is coming DOWN,

I'm very surprised you'd say such a thing. Can you show me where i have concluded that is the case? My whole point is you are guessing what the fault is and so am i. The difference is i'm not asserting either one is correct. I'm just pointing out there is more than one possibility to the cause of the problem. s.

motorguy wrote: »

but i'll leave you to it at this point - clearly its of more importance to you to win an argument on the internet than evaluate facts from people who know what they're talking about.

I'm not interested in winning any arguments, just ensuring the OP any anyone else reading this in the future seeking help get the proper advice. Can you imagine what the motor trade would be like with everyone just assuming what faults were caused by and not ever checking to make sure.

If the OP is still reading this what tests did Vauxhall and the original mechanic perform on the engine exactly?
If they done compression tests (i'd be surprised if they didn't) did they mention what the readings were?

Have you tried the suggestions made by me and another poster in regards to when the blue smoke appears?

Tilt

(Jesus!) So has the OP checked to see if the seller may be in fact a trader yet or not?

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

How many times am i going to have to repeat myself? It is VERY COMMON on this engine at this age.

I have seen it happen. I have physically had three cars doing exactly this. It is generally caused by the engine having been overheated at some point and the rings losing their tension. It doesnt cause significant compression loss, but does make the car use oil, clog up the plugs and eventually the car will run off a cylinder and throw on the engine management light. EXACTLY as is being described here. Also, the known workaround is to clean / change the plugs regularly and drive on at as its not worth the full engine strip down / rebuild to resolve. EXACTLY the problem that is being described here.

It doesn't matter how many times you have come across it, or how common it is. Breather and valve stem oil seal problems are more common on all engines.

motorguy wrote: »

EXACTLY - hence its very unlikely there would be enough oil in the head to physically clog up the plugs. Which is EXACTLY what the O/P's mechanic saw and EXACTLY what Vauxhall saw.

You don't actually understand much about mechanics do you? Oil being burned in the combustion chamber will cause carbon deposits, which build up on the electrodes, and close the gap preventing an efficient spark. This is caused by gradual oil leaks, which is what you would get with oil ring failure, breather problems, or valve stem oil seal leaks. You wouldn't get oil gushing into the combustion chamber unless all the rings had failed (including the compression rings).

motorguy wrote: »

You've just talked yourself out of your own argument!! :rotfl:

I think it is you who has done this due to your lack of knowledge.

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

Depending on what was cleaned when, how many miles the car has done and how closely the plugs were examined, all four may not have been oiled up at the first inspection.



Vauxhall concluded that the ENGINE needed stripped to find the source of the problem in the ENGINE. They didnt mention stripping just the HEAD, or propose changing the VSOS's. They're convinced its in the BLOCK not the HEAD.



The original mechanic said and i quote "the garage have been looking at this all day and have ruled out other possibilities"



Oh come on. Catch yourself on. Its a 30 second job.

And out of curiosity, if its so likely to be just the VSOS's, why have they not just said to remove the head and strip it?



I am saying it is most likely the oil rings based on ALL THE EVIDENCE we have been given from TWO mechanics - one who looked at it all day and ruled out all other possibilities and Vauxhall themselves, who want to strip the ENGINE, NOT the HEAD.

If you want to insist that the O/P gets the valve stem oil seals changed, then that is very much against what they have been TOLD by the TWO mechanics who have actually SEEN the problem.

I can see it now :-

Vauxhall - "we need to strip the engine down to understand what the problem is"

O/P - "no, no, no. You're wrong. The problem is in the head - Its the valve stem oil seals. Some bloke on the internet told me it was"

:rotfl:

Yet again you have just proved your complete ignorance. And you have also put words into the mechanics mouths.

As for the first mechanic. If they said they spent all day looking at the possibilities, then they lied. Otherwise they would have found evidence of oil ingress in all four cylinders.

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

Exactly.

You would imagine either the mechanic who spent the day at it OR Vauxhall themselves would have spotted if the dipstick was popping and / or if the filters were blocked.

Dip sticks won't always pop out. And you often have to rev the engine hard before they will.

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

And you dont think the mechanic who spent all day checking the problem OR Vauxhall themselves wouldnt have spotted the dipstick popping OR checked the breathers?

Go and take lessons in vehicle mechanics!!!

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

Jamie, answer me this - given Vauxhall have actually had the car, WHY are they not suggesting simply checking / stripping the head? WHY are they - as the experts - convinced it needs the whole ENGINE stripped?

Is this because -

(a) removing the rocker cover is, by your definition, "stripping the engine"?

or

(b) because they are convince - like the O/P's mechanic that the problem is not in the head?

Because to start with the more they do the more it costs the OP. And secondly you have misquoted them yet again.

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

Rest assured, hes made a better stab at it than some bloke on the internet who hasnt seen the car whos convinced its the valve stem oil seals.

:rotfl:

You mean like the bloke on the internet who hasn't seen the car, and is convinced that it is the oil rings????? :rotfl:

I have never said that it IS the valve stem oil seals have I. I have just said that there are three possibilities, and that breather problems and valve stem oil seals are the most likely.

Jamie_Carter

motorguy wrote: »

My point was, its a relatively simple engine in job to strip the head off, that doesnt necessitate the engine coming out. Whereas Vauxhall were saying they wanted to strip the engine down which very much suggested they wanted the engine out.

As they are the people who are the experts and have seen the car in question, if you're saying its from the top down, how come Vauxhall want the engine out?

You are making yourself look very foolish now by your lack of mechanical knowledge. :rotfl::rotfl:

motorguy

Any update O/P?