Psychic Visit

The_Hurricane

Tropez wrote: »

But it was "don't think" and "not sure" a moment ago, and now it is definitely?

For someone who claims to "definitely" not believe, you've actually gone quite some way towards entertaining the notion from the outset. The majority of people who dismiss this quackery wouldn't even entertain the notion of allowing a friend expose themselves to a confidence trickster, let alone decide to have a reading.

In fact, for someone who claims to "definitely" not believe, you've done a lot more to suggest that there is something to it, particularly with your recent post mentioning your psychic friend and the nine out of ten spot on predictions (love the turn of phrase "came to pass", very mystic) that have all come true in just a few days.

Add to that the desire to keep an open mind, the knowledge of how this particular psychic operates and the earlier attempted dismissal of arguments based on "have you had a reading?". Something doesn't quite add up with "definitely" not being a believer.

And who are you?

Tropez

The_Hurricane wrote: »

And who are you?

Ask a psychic.

bromleymum

KxMx wrote: »

Firstly, I have no doubt there are numerous fraudsters out there. No doubt about that.

However, I do keep an open mind, just because we are living in the year 2013 does not mean science and knowledge and understanding are the be all and end all. There are things out there that we, for various reasons, cannot comprehend. No doubt about that either.

So saying that because it cannot be proven to be real today it doesn't exist is just wrong.

The attitudes displayed to those who do believe are I imagine the names thrown against those for example who said the earth was round and not flat as taught- something which they were correct about but at the time could not be proved.

I had a palm reading years ago (paid for) which couldn't have been more wrong as things turned out. Horse manure doesn't cover it.

I also had another reading recently (free), and after discounting everything that could have been found out about digitally, was frankly scarily accurate. The psychic was not known to me, not local, and I monitored carefully what she was told beforehand purely because I wanted to see how much she came up with on her own (barring internet trails etc which I am as meticulous as I can be about anyway).

I'm not so narrow minded (or arrogant) as to call the whole thing a fake because it cannot be proved but I would say it's very likely the majority are fraudsters.

I describe myself as having an open mind, but with a large dose of scepticism thrown in.

I equate people who believe in psychics as the same as the flat earth believers, certainly not the other way round!

I'm always amazed by the people who call themselves sceptics but fall over themselves to tell you of a time where some medium or other was spookily correct.

It's almost as if they cannot accept that they've been had! Believe me, you've been had.

Tropez

KxMx wrote: »

The attitudes displayed to those who do believe are I imagine the names thrown against those for example who said the earth was round and not flat as taught- something which they were correct about but at the time could not be proved.

The people who thought the Earth was round have been told they were correct all the way back to some of human society's earliest records in the days of the Ancient Greeks.

It was a myth perpetuated by anti-Christian writers in the 18th and 19th Centuries that there was ever a widespread consensus that the Earth was flat. We have no record of that being the case.

Certainly, some people did believe the Earth was flat. They were called idiots. It doesn't even take a scientific brain to work out that if things disappear over the horizon there is a curvature.

The problem is though, as I said in another post, we have advanced in almost all areas of science over the past few hundred years, yet we haven't advanced anywhere in paranormal sciences... except to discount things such as lightning being the work of witches and some advancements giving natural explanations to supernatural occurrences.

If psychic abilities are real, then psychics should be more open to submitting to scientific testing but they're not. Those that do thus far have been discovered to be frauds or delusional. If scientists were given something to actually look at (even unsual brain activity) they could then begin to ascertain the validity of the field but it seems all the legitimate psychics won't come forward.

They have every reason to. What it would mean for human society and the potential it could give us moving forward could result in numerous advancements for us at every possible level of society. Furthermore, it would add validity to their little communities, which would be a positive thing. Anything that brings and furthers understanding is desirable.

Yet, nothing. Nothing has yet stood up to scientific scrutiny.

So, it either leaves us with a situation that all the legitimate psychics are selfish and have no desire to further society and allow investigation of their gift despite the numerous positives it could potentially bring us for the future, or it's all a lie.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Errata

If psychics are winning the main lottery prize every week they're keeping very quiet about it.

nickj_2

i used to know a man who was a spiritulist , he would meet up with some guy from kent who was supposed to be "the main man " of contacting the dead, he would say that they would meet at a spiritulist hall near stansted airport , during their seances my friend told me that there would be stuff flying around the room , orbs of light, ringing bells etc , as far as i could tell my freind wasn't 1 sandwich short of a picnic, i have no reason to doubt what he was saying , but i guess unless you witness it yourself you are always a doubter

i've been doing some work at our local hotel which is a C17th coach house. they have a haunted room , guests have said that they have heard crashing about in the rooms above , even though there are no rooms above , my daughter was cleaning this room when the door slammed shut and locked. the only other person in the hotel at the time was the cheff, as she couldn't get out she had to phone him to come andunlock the door , she saw him come out from another separate part of the hotel , so there was no way he could have shut the door and got back to his room either in the time or without her seeing him , again i have no reason to doubt her , but i haven't seen it with my own eyes .

we don't know everything, could there be things that are beyond our understnding on how everything works , can we ever prove it ?

KxMx

Tropez wrote: »

The people who thought the Earth was round have been told they were correct all the way back to some of human society's earliest records in the days of the Ancient Greeks.

It was a myth perpetuated by anti-Christian writers in the 18th and 19th Centuries that there was ever a widespread consensus that the Earth was flat. We have no record of that being the case.

Certainly, some people did believe the Earth was flat. They were called idiots. It doesn't even take a scientific brain to work out that if things disappear over the horizon there is a curvature.

The problem is though, as I said in another post, we have advanced in almost all areas of science over the past few hundred years, yet we haven't advanced anywhere in paranormal sciences... except to discount things such as lightning being the work of witches and some advancements giving natural explanations to supernatural occurrences.

If psychic abilities are real, then psychics should be more open to submitting to scientific testing but they're not. Those that do thus far have been discovered to be frauds or delusional. If scientists were given something to actually look at (even unsual brain activity) they could then begin to ascertain the validity of the field but it seems all the legitimate psychics won't come forward.

They have every reason to. What it would mean for human society and the potential it could give us moving forward could result in numerous advancements for us at every possible level of society. Furthermore, it would add validity to their little communities, which would be a positive thing. Anything that brings and furthers understanding is desirable.

Yet, nothing. Nothing has yet stood up to scientific scrutiny.

So, it either leaves us with a situation that all the legitimate psychics are selfish and have no desire to further society and allow investigation of their gift despite the numerous positives it could potentially bring us for the future, or it's all a lie.

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

As someone who has been sick for 7 years with no diagnosis you'll excuse me for laughing frankly at people who say " it's 2013 if science can't prove it it isn't real :cool:

Nothing quite like good ol' human arrogance

How are we to know that our current scientific equipment is even capable of detecting paranormal activity?

Oh and bromleymum I don't think so, I rubbished the palm reading I had, and the more recent reading I picked every hole in that I could, but there were still things outstanding that I could not explain- and as a complete sceptic until that point I tried I really did.

Funky_Bold_Ribena

The_Hurricane wrote: »

To put my friend at ease I took a read too, it's difficult to ascertain how accurate it was as it was mainly predictions for the future.

She did seem to get a few things spot on, could have been lucky guesses. I spoke to a number of random people on FB who had reads with her and a lot of what she said came to pass.

Overall I'm not sure but something I didn't state in my original post is I have an acquaintance who is or at least claims to psychic. She is adamant that no money should ever change hands and that psychic abilities are for helping people only.

She gave me about 10 quite odd predictions relating to future events for me, they all seemed highly unlikely but 9 have came to pass.

I still don't think I'm a believer especially when money changes hands.

I knew that would happen.

Tropez

KxMx wrote: »

As someone who has been sick for 7 years with no diagnosis you'll excuse me for laughing frankly at people who say " it's 2013 if science can't prove it it isn't real :cool:

Nothing quite like good ol' human arrogance

I haven't said that though, have I? It hasn't actually been said by anyone who has responded to this thread.

How are we to know that our current scientific equipment is even capable of detecting paranormal activity?

The whole purpose of these tests is to find something that cannot be explained which would fit the definition of supernatural. Unfortunately, thus far, every single person who has submitted themselves for testing has had their "gifts" explained as being perfectly natural (ie. they don't have a gift and they're either deluded, trying it on, or are mistaking something normal as something paranormal).

We would want the equipment (although that thoroughly simplifies an extremely complicated process that does not wholly use aparatus) not to be able to detect a cause for what is occurring, because then we would actually be able to consider it supernatural or at the very least have a new avenue to explore and build upon to hopefully verify further cases in the future. This is the ideal as it is in most sciences. Science is always looking for something we don't understand to study.

The problem though is not that testing is unable to detect what is happening, it is actually that thus far it has been quite capable of doing so and has therefore provided a natural explanation.

As I say, the supposedly legitimate psychics should submit themselves for testing and give the scientists something that they cannot explain but for some reason they don't...