Had a Visit from TV Licence Man

edmund_blackadder

anotheruser wrote: »

To be fair though, the OP stated they "watch the odd live programme". Without any sort of scale, it's difficult to make a judgement.

Are you saying someone should pay the full fee if they watch ONE live programme in 12 months? And you think that's right?

However, if the OP means they watch at least one programme a week, then that is completely different.

If the OP uses their TV (connected to their computer) to browse the internet and watch movies through LoveFilm or something similar then surely that is their intended or primary purpose of the device, NOT for watching live TV, which would put an end to that "defence".

I wonder if my TV will allow me to delete or tune out channels individually. . .

Since a pay per view service is not offered, then the answers to your questions are 'yes' and 'yes'.

Cornucopia

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

My understanding is that iPlayer is still broadcast from the BBC servers, and would therefore require a license. And that you can only watch pre-recorded media.

Your understanding is incorrect - have you read the thread?

I know that some people will jump on this post and say that this is wrong. But it would be more constructive if people who actually know the law commented.

Several of us know the law. Don't let the fact that we are quibbling about a minor detail confuse you on that.

It is all very well thinking that you are right about something. But it's not a forum that you have to convince, it's a judge.

I use Youview without an aerial connection and can only access catch-up services including iPlayer. I do not need a licence for this. This is confirmed by TVL and TalkTalk, my ISP.

At the most basic level, this is all you need to know:

You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV as it's being broadcast.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/

If you use the BBC iPlayer to watch BBC programmes after they have been broadcast either to download or via streaming on demand then you will not need a TV Licence.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ103/

oldgrumpygit

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

My understanding is that iPlayer is still broadcast from the BBC servers, and would therefore require a license. And that you can only watch pre-recorded media.

I know that some people will jump on this post and say that this is wrong. But it would be more constructive if people who actually know the law commented.

It is all very well thinking that you are right about something. But it's not a forum that you have to convince, it's a judge.

If you only use the iPlayer to watch catch up TV then you do not need a licence

However if you do use it to watch TV as broadcast then you would need a licence.

From TVL

"Do you need a TV Licence to watch shows on BBC iPlayer? It depends on whether you’re using BBC iPlayer to watch TV programmes at the same time as they are being shown on TV (i.e. “live”) or after they have been broadcast by either downloading programmes or via streaming on demand (on-demand).
You need to be covered by a TV Licence to watch or record television programmes as they’re being shown on TV. The law applies to all viewing and recording devices (TV, computer, laptop, mobile phone or any other), regardless of how you receive the television programmes (terrestrial, satellite, cable, via the internet on BBC iPlayer or any other way).
The BBC iPlayer allows users to watch programmes “live” as they are being shown on TV (i.e. BBC1, BBC2, BBC News etc.) and on-demand. If you are watching live content (e.g. a programme as it is being shown on BBC1 or BBC News) you will need a TV Licence. If you are using the BBC iPlayer to watch programmes on-demand i.e. after they have been shown, you do not need a TV Licence. Accordingly, depending on the nature of the content being viewed on the BBC iPlayer, a TV Licence may be required."

oldgrumpygit

Kurtis_Blue wrote: »

Fairly sure every one does understand it, I know I do, there will of course be others that weirdly seem to want to redefine basic common English terms, normally to wheedle out of paying for something they are using.

I disagree and the discussion on this thread has proven that some people do not and there are different interpretations of the legislation.

For instance the TVL and BBC seem to differ from yours as does the advice given by the people that run this very site.

"Many wrongly believe that you'll need to be covered by a TV licence if you have the ability to watch "live TV", this is even if you don't watch it. This is an urban myth: just because you have the ability to watch "live TV" doesn't neccessarily mean you need a licence. You'll only need a licence if you actually watch "live TV".
So, if you've got an aerial on your roof/satellite dish/TV with built-in Freeview etc, but you don't actually watch "live TV", you don't need a licence"

From here h t t p://w w w.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/tv-licence

(sorry had to edit the link for publication)

Cornucopia

Kurtis_Blue wrote: »

Fairly sure every one does understand it, I know I do, there will of course be others that weirdly seem to want to redefine basic common English terms, normally to wheedle out of paying for something they are using.

The issue of whether you can listen to the radio on your TV without a licence is hardly going to be make or break for the licence fee.

It's a technicality, which if the BBC were being sensible, they would head off with a statement such as this: "Although it is lawful to listen to radio on a TV without a licence, it is presently beyond our investigative capabilities to reliably make the distinction (with evasion), and therefore you are strongly advised not to do it".

There does seem to be a wrong-headedness applied by some people on this issue... I want to know what I can and can't do to remain within the law. I would have thought that was a reasonable request. I will happily modify my behaviour to remain lawful, but I will not buy a TV Licence unless I absolutely have to.

prowla

anotheruser wrote: »

To be fair though, the OP stated they "watch the odd live programme". Without any sort of scale, it's difficult to make a judgement.

Are you saying someone should pay the full fee if they watch ONE live programme in 12 months? And you think that's right?

However, if the OP means they watch at least one programme a week, then that is completely different.

If the OP uses their TV (connected to their computer) to browse the internet and watch movies through LoveFilm or something similar then surely that is their intended or primary purpose of the device, NOT for watching live TV, which would put an end to that "defence".

I wonder if my TV will allow me to delete or tune out channels individually. . .

Yes - it is do you or don't you use it for that purpose.

It's a simple yes/no.

If you want to watch live TV then it is a yes.

If it is no, then you cannot watch live TV.

Cornucopia

oldgrumpygit wrote: »

I disagree and the discussion on this thread has proven that some people do not and there are different interpretations of the legislation.

I agree, and it disappoints me that for something so relatively simple, there is so much misunderstanding around.

oldgrumpygit

Cornucopia wrote: »

I agree, and it disappoints me that for something so relatively simple, there is so much misunderstanding around.

As I said in a previous post the legislation has not really caught up with the technology.

Any case would have to be tried and judged on the evidence of both sides, but the TVL starting point seems to assume guilt at all times.

lazer

I actually have sky TV installed and use it for the on demand service and the radio (Got a brilliant deal when getting broadband and phone and the on demand service and the full deal is not much more expensive than a broadband/Phone would be from another supplier).


I currently don't have a TV licence but may consider getting one as its a very grey area

oldgrumpygit

Kurtis_Blue wrote: »

But it would make or break the fee, if the legislation was changed that you could now install a TV with every channel tuned in, but then simply state you didnt watch it only listened to the radio.

Then it would be unenforceable, well even more unenforceable than it currently is.

The offence is installation OR use, not watching.

" installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service"

So installed or used for a specific purpose only.
This does not include listening to the radio.

But would, as it is worded, actually cover using the iPlayer to watch catch up TV.

(New can of worms)