Had a Visit from TV Licence Man

sniggings

katejo wrote: »

So in halls students have to watch live tv on a laptop on battery not while charging ?

I guess the answer is it comes down to the judge or more correctly magistrate, and as a magistrate is far less qualified in law, you would have to relay on them knowing the difference, the way some cases go, I would not leave it to chance, best advice is keep a mobile device mobile, to not give them any room for mistakes as magistrates seem to error on the side of capitor/TV licencing, best keep it as simple as possible.

You always have an appeal to a higher court if convicted, where I judge would understand the law and not just cast everyone they come up against as a licence fee dodger.

Cornucopia

sniggings wrote: »

how would a warrant obtain that? the person is not going to be sitting in front of the Tv as the knock down the door...as no knocking down of doors is done.

You are right that they don't break down doors, and presumably aren't expecting to catch people red-handed. To be absolutely honest, I don't know what the evidential route is at that stage - but I'm pretty sure there is one - probably around the "install" part of the law. Though that contradicts other statements from the BBC which talk solely about "watching or recording TV broadcasts".

Once again, the system is a mess and requires urgent improvement.

this is what they want, for people to say "what if" and "they might" etc etc just look at the evidence, they spend millions of other forms of catching people but not once has detection be used in court, call me daft but I go by the evidence I don't go by what ifs.

I'm just saying what I have evidence of - that they used what they claimed was detection as a way of obtaining a SW. No point debating that, it is a very rare occurrence, but nevertheless true.

sniggings

Cornucopia wrote: »

You are right that they don't break down doors, and presumably aren't expecting to catch people red-handed. To be absolutely honest, I don't know what the evidential route is at that stage - but I'm pretty sure there is one - probably around the "install" part of the law. Though that contradicts other statements from the BBC which talk solely about "watching or recording TV broadcasts".

Once again, the system is a mess and requires urgent improvement.

I'm just saying what I have evidence of - that they used what they claimed was detection as a way of obtaining a SW. No point debating that, it is a very rare occurrence, but nevertheless true.

yep, that's why I have now put away all my unanswered questions, and am just going to "keep it simple stupid" no room for error, I will not allow a search but on the very small off chance of a search warrant they can test away and not get a picture...it will also be recored for evidence and a Youtube vid

Cornucopia

That's definitely the way to go....

Keep your AV configuration as far away as possible from something that is "installed or used" for receiving live broadcasts - "just in case".

oldgrumpygit

Kurtis_Blue wrote: »

Not if you detune / delete the TV channels.

Is that possible with a TV tuned to receive digital radio broadcasts?

I am genuinely interested to know what the Acts definition might be of "install."


There is in the Act a definition of "use" but not of "install" unless I have missed it.

oldgrumpygit

sniggings wrote: »

so your evidence is the word "use" where I provided a court case showing a man WAS convicted for TV licence evading not for "using" but for the TV being capable of receiving a live feed, you can argue the word "use" with the judge but it won't get you very far, good luck with that, I won't be replying to any more of your posts as your argument is now bordering on the silly.

Apologies but I cannot find the link to the case you provided showing that someone was convicted on the grounds you suggest.

Could you repost it please?

The argument around the use of a TV for a purpose other than watching live TV is hardly "silly" it is what those who do not have a licence rely on.

oldgrumpygit

Kurtis_Blue wrote: »

If it is not possible to detune or delete the TV channels on your set then you are breaking the law, it is very clear.

"(1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose."

The word install is in most dictionary, if you are going to go to court and explain or argue that a TV unboxed, plugged in to power and and aerial and tuned in to TV channels is not installed, then let me know I will love to come along.

I have no idea why you have been giving advise to the contrary if you do not understand the basic legislation or technology.

It is indeed very clear - you are not breaking the law if you do not watch live TV.

The reason am I asking about the definition of install is that it is possible to install a television receiver for the purpose of listening to radio.

Your quote "television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.

indicates that it is perfectly acceptable to install a television in order to listen to the radio as there would be no "purpose of receiving any television programme"

Cornucopia

Apart from the contradictory advice given by the BBC (which I think would have some weight in court), what we are dealing with is a difference in meaning between...

1. Installed ... or used for the purpose.

and 2. Installed or used ... for the purpose. (ie. Installed for the purpose or used for the purpose).

I'm thinking that the BBC's interpretation is more consistent with (2). So unless anyone has strong grounds for going with (1), we should stick with (2).

oldgrumpygit

Kurtis_Blue wrote: »

Tuning the TV channels in is installing for the purpose of RECEIVING TV channels, even if it is not installing for the purpose of WATCHING tv channels.

You really donot understand this as well as you believe, if you wish to risk it your self, great, but I would cease giving out any more dodgy advice if I was you.

Perhaps you might want to do a bit more research yourself before dismissing this valid argument with your scaremongering.

"A TV Licence is required to watch or record TV programmes as they are being shown on TV, regardless of the channel and device being used (e.g. TV, computer, laptop, mobile phone, game console, digital box or DVD/VHS recorder), and how it is receive (terrestrial, satellite, cable, via the internet or any other way). You do not need a TV Licence if you only use this equipment to listen to digital radio broadcasts."

From the TVL site My bold.

There are other examples of this being confirmed elsewhere.

Buzby

oldgrumpygit wrote: »

Define "install"


Do I need a TV licence to listen to digital radio using my TV as a receiver?

No I do not.

And where is this stated in the Communications Act 2000? If you end up in court, this defining legislation is used NOT any 'explanatory' leaflet from the TVLRO/Crapita/BBC.